Family:
Marriage:
Children:
- Ermentrude Of Kinziggau Death: After 995
- Gerberga Of Gleiberg Death: After 1036
- Gebhard Count Death: 8 Nov 1016
- Otto Von Hammerstein Count In Wetterau Birth: Abt 975
Death: Abt 5 Jun 1036
Bibliography
-
Brandenburg, Erich, Die Nachkommen Karls des Grossen, Faksimile-Nachdruck von 1935 (Facsimile reproduction of 1935), mit Korrekturen und Erganzungen versehen von (with corrections and additions provided by) Manfred Dreiss und Lupold v. Lehsten. Neustadt an der Aisch:Verlag Degener, 1995. NYPL ATH (Charlemagne) 96-4768. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Brandenburg 1995 p[0-9]*].
-
Schwennicke, Detlev, ed., Europaische Stammtafeln: Stammtafeln zur Geschichte der europaischen Staaten, New Series. I: Die Stammesherzoge, Die Weltlichenkurforsten, Die Kaiserlichen, Koniglichen und Grossherzoglichen Familien. Marburg: Verlag von J. A. Stargardt, 1980. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: ES I #[0-9]*].
-
Schwennicke, Detlev, ed., Europaische Stammtafeln: Stammtafeln zur Geschichte der europaischen Staaten, New Series. I.1: Die frankischen Konige und die Konige und Kaiser, Stammesherzoge, Kurfursten, Markgrafen und Herzoge des Heiligen Romischen Reiches Deutscher Nation. Frankfurt am Main: Vittorio Klostermann, 1998. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: ES I.1 #[0-9]*].
-
The Henry Project: The Ancestors of King Henry II of England, An eperiment in a cooperative online database for scholarly medieval genealogy. Contributors and Editors: Stewart Baldwin, Todd Farmerie, Peter Stewart. Available at https://fasg.org/projects/henryproject/ Information from this source tagged as [Ref: HenryII .*].
-
Jackman, Donald C, Criticism and Critique: Sidelights on the Konradiner. Oxford: Unit for Prosopographical Research, 1997. NYPL ATH (Konradiner) 00-1166. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Jackman Konradiner [p#][0-9]*].
-
Parsons, John Carmi, Megingoz/Meingaud. Posting to soc.genealogy.medieval (email list GEN-MEDIEVAL) on 9/17/1998. Subject: Megingoz/Meingaud. Available at https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/5Q2EZ2lvVC0/m/rOojYv8YesgJ. Author address: jparsons at chass dot utoronto dot ca. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: John Carmi Parsons SGM 9/17/1998].
-
Moriarty, G Andrews, Plantagenet Ancestry of King Edward III And Queen Philippa. Salt Lake: Mormon Pioneer Genealogical Society, 1985. LDS Film#0441438. NYPL ARF-86-2555. Available at https://familysearch.org/search/film/007905814?cat=66443. Also available at https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/66443. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Moriarty Plantagenet p[0-9]*].
-
Paget, Gerald, The Lineage and Ancestry of H.R.H. Prince Charles, Prince of Wales. London: Charles Skilton Ltd, 1977. Nypl ARF+ 78-835. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Paget HRHCharles p[0-9]*].
-
Settipani, Christian, and J-P Poly, Les Conradiens: un debat toujours ouvert, Francia, vol 23 no 1 (1996). pp135-66. NYPL JFL 75-104 v23pt1 (1996). OFFSITE--Request in advance, also available via RECAP electronic delivery. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Settipani Conradiens p[0-9]*].
-
Baldwin, Stewart, Heribert of Kinziggau, part 1. Posting to soc.genealogy.medieval (email list GEN-MEDIEVAL) on 4/8/2002. Subject: Heribert of Kinziggau, part 1/2a/2b/2c. Available at https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/lZhJxhPsQXE/m/4vGiTkBHuJYJ, https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/C4z8UCbtqXg/m/zJXi4bG-sqgJ, https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/ic79uOlZvS4/m/zdgMjSCT0foJ, and https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/VS_2MCsrAuc/m/lUgXdTMqX4wJ. Author address: sbaldw at mindspring dot com. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Stewart Baldwin SGM 4/8/2002-204050].
-
Baldwin, Stewart, Count Odo and Cunegonde. Posting to soc.genealogy.medieval (email list GEN-MEDIEVAL) on 8/13/2005. Subject: Count Odo/Cunegonde. Available at https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/EG8fUGArHIU/m/Ald9qNbrQvIJ. Author address: sbaldw at mindspring dot com. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Stewart Baldwin SGM 8/13/2005-013200].
-
Weis, Frederick Lewis, Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr, David Faris, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who came to America before 1700, 7th Edition, Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co, 1992. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Weis AR7 #[0-9][0-9]*[A-Z]*].
Sources for birth and parent Information
- date:
- abt 925 [Ref: Brandenburg 1995 p6, Moriarty Plantagenet p23, Paget
HRHCharles p54],
- parents:
- Udo Count in the Wetterau & dau Herbert Count of Vermandois [Ref:
Brandenburg 1995 p6, ES I #11, Moriarty Plantagenet p23, Weis AR7 #143],
- father:
- dotted line to Odo Count Wetterau [Ref: Settipani Conradiens
p149-Hlawitschka],
- brother:
- Gebhard (c920-938) [Ref: Brandenburg 1995 p6]
- Konrad Duke of Swabia, Udo d.982 [Ref: Stewart Baldwin SGM
4/8/2002-204050]
- Odo Duke of Alsace, Conrad Duke of Swabia [Ref: Settipani Conradiens
p149],
- sister:
- Judith wife of Henry Count of Stade [Ref: Settipani Conradiens p139,
Stewart Baldwin SGM 4/8/2002-204050]
Sources with Inaccurate birth and parent Information
- parents:
- Konrad Count in the Ortenau (#164334) & (Judith) (#164335) [Ref: ES
I.1 #8]
- Konrad Count in the Ortenau (#164334) & Judith (#164335) [Ref:
Brandenburg 1995 p92],
- father:
- Conrad I Duke of Alsace (#164334) [Ref: Settipani Conradiens
p149-Jackman]
- Konrad Count in the Ortenau (#164334) [Ref: Jackman Konradiner #1]
Sources for death Information
- date:
- [Ref: Brandenburg 1995 p6, Brandenburg 1995 p92, ES I #11, HenryII
ermen100 4/5/2007, HenryII megin000 4/15/2007, Jackman Konradiner #1, Moriarty
Plantagenet p206, Moriarty Plantagenet p23, Paget HRHCharles p54, Weis AR7
#143]
Sources with Inaccurate death Information
- date:
- 997, in same year as his brother Konrad [Ref: Stewart Baldwin SGM
4/8/2002-204050]
Sources with Information about marriage to Irmentrude
- date:
- first marriage of Ermentrude [Ref: John Carmi Parsons SGM 9/17/1998],
- names:
- [Ref: HenryII gerbe001 4/5/2007, HenryII megin000 4/15/2007, Moriarty
Plantagenet p206],
- child:
- [Ref: Brandenburg 1995 p6, Brandenburg 1995 p92, ES I #11, ES I.1 #8,
HenryII ermen100 4/5/2007, HenryII frede000 4/5/2007, HenryII nn000001
4/5/2007, John Carmi Parsons SGM 9/17/1998, Moriarty Plantagenet p23, Moriarty
Plantagenet p24, Paget HRHCharles p54, Weis AR7 #143]
Research Notes:
Pfalzgraf in Kinziggau [Ref: ES I.1 #8]
Count in Kinziggau [Ref: Brandenburg 1995 p6, ES I.1 #8, HenryII ermen100
4/5/2007, HenryII gerbe001 4/5/2007, HenryII megin000 4/15/2007, Jackman
Konradiner #1, Moriarty Plantagenet p23, Settipani Conradiens p149, Weis AR7
#143]
Count in the Wetterau [Ref: John Carmi Parsons SGM 9/17/1998]
Count of Gleiberg [Ref: Moriarty Plantagenet p23, Paget HRHCharles p54, Paget
HRHCharles p57, Weis AR7 #143]
Unfortunately, the primary sources do not state Heribert's parentage, but
other information about his family has been used to try to deduce his
parentage. The basic starting point is the chronicle of Theitmar of Merseberg
(d. 1018), a relative of Heribert. Both of Heribert's sons are referred to by
Theitmar as his "nepos", although it is clear from chronology that the word
does not mean either "grandson" or "nephew" here, but is used in the looser
sense of "relative". [Ref: Stewart Baldwin SGM 4/8/2002-204050]
The main question is: Who were the parents of the siblings Konrad, Heribert,
Udo, Judith? This is apparently not directly documented, and Jackman differs
from what seemed to be the previous consensus....
One objection [to solution proposed by Hlawitschka, Brandenburg, Werner]
that has been put forward by some, including Jackman, is chronological.
Heribert and his brother Konrad both died in 997, 48 years after the death of
the supposed father Udo. I don't see this is as a serious objection. It is
known that Udo and his brother Hermann were still boys when their father
Gebhard died in the year 910 [... Gebeardus comes interiit, relictus duobus
filiis suis pueris, Udone et Herimanno, ..., Regino's Continuator, MGH SS 1,
614], so even if his sons were born as early as the 920's (and they may well
have been born later), they would still only be in their seventies in 997.
Thus, I find it hard to put much weight in Jackman's overstatement about "...
three generations covering an enormous duration of over one hundred and twenty
years." [Jackman, p. 170] Although somewhat more than average, it is
insufficient to cause serious concern.
More serious is another objection put forward by Jackman. In 950, the year
after reporting the death of count Udo, Regino's Continuator reported that
"... Udo, filius Udonis comitis ..." succeeded as Bishop of Strasburg [MGH SS
1, 620], and he is apparently the same as the Uodo, Bishop of Strasburg whose
death was reported in the same source in 965 [MGH SS 1, 627]. From the
context, the count Udo who was father of Bishop Udo would seem to be the man
of the name whose death was recorded in the previous year in the same source.
This Bishop Udo could then not be the same person as the Udo, brother of
Heribert, who died in 982 [Thietmar, as above]. Thus, since it is unlikely
that Bishop Udo and Duke Udo were brothers, supporters of count Udo as the
father of Heribert would have to adequately explain this problem, which has
apparently not been done. [Ref: Stewart Baldwin SGM 4/8/2002-204050]
No primary source states the parentage of Heribert. The two most widely
mentioned reconstructions would either make Heribert a son of Udo by his
unnamed Vermandois wife (e.g., Eduard Hlawitschka) or would make Heribert
descend from a different branch of the family (e.g., Armin Wolf, Donald
Jackman). I have not looked at this much in the last year or so, but what
additional reading I have done makes me lean more toward Hlawitschka's
reconstruction than I did before. If Hlawitschka is wrong, then I would
regard the addition of one more generation between Udo and Heribert to be a
more likely possibility than the theories proposed by Wolf and Jackman, which
I find very unconvincing. [Ref: Stewart Baldwin SGM 8/13/2005-013200]
949: Count in Kinziggau [Ref: Brandenburg 1995 p6]
976: Count in Kinziggau [Ref: ES I.1 #8]
976: Pfalzgraf in Kinziggau [Ref: ES I.1 #8]
-----
Europaische Stammtafeln I.1 #8 ("Die Konradiner, 911-918 Konig von
Ostfranken"):
Heribert 976 Graf in Kinziggau, Pfalzgraf d. 992; m. Imiza T f Gf Megingoz u
Gerberga (Matfride); children: Otto, Gebhard, Tochter, Gerberga [Ref: ES I.1
#8]
Pedigree of Herbert I Count In The Kinziggau
/-----
Agilolf
/-----
Gerold I Count In The Anglachau
/-----
Hadrian Lord In The Worms
| | /-----
Hnabi Duke Of Alamannia, Count In The Linzgau
| \-----
Emma
| \-----
Hersuinde
/-----
Eudes Count Of Orleans
| | /-----
Thiery (Not Makhir) Count Of Autun
| | /-----
Adalelmus
| | | \-----
Auda
| \-----
Waldast
/-----
Gebhard Count In The Nieder-Lahngau
| | /-----
Girard Count Of Paris
| | /-----
Leuthard Count Of Fezenac
| | | | /-----
Carloman Mayor Of The Palace
| | | \-----
Rotrude
| \-----
Engeltrude
| \-----
Grimihild
/-----
Eudes Count In Lahngau
| | /-----
Hunroch Count of Ternois
| \-----
(Unk Dau) Of Friuli
| | /-----
Girard Count Of Paris
| | /-----
Begue Count Of Paris
| | | | /-----
Carloman Mayor Of The Palace
| | | \-----
Rotrude
| \-----
Engeltron Of Paris
| | /-----
Charlemagne King Of France
| | /-----
Louis I The Fair Emperor Of The West
| | | \-----
Hildegarde Of Swabia, Countess Of Vinzgau
| \-----
Aupals
/-----
Gebhard Duke Of Lorraine
| | /-----
Guelph Duke Of Fruili, Count Of Bavaria
| | /-----
Ruthardus Duke Of Bavaria
| | /-----
Guelph Count Of Andech And Bavaria
| | /-----
Conrad I Of Burgandy, Count Of Auxerra
| | | | /-----
(Unk) Saxon
| | | \-----
Edith (Heilwig) Of Saxony, Abbess Of Chelles
| \-----
Judith
| | /-----
Adelbert Duke Of Alsace
| | /-----
Luitfriede I Duke Of Alsace
| | | \-----
Gerlinde
| | /-----
Luitfriede II Count Of Alsace
| | /-----
Hugh le Mefiant Count Of Tours
| | | \-----
Hiltrude
| \-----
Aelis Of Tours And Alsace
| \-----
Ava
/-----
Udo Count In The Wetterau
| \-----
Ita
Herbert I Count In The Kinziggau
| /-----
Charles Martel, The Hammer, Mayor Of The Palace, King Of France
| /-----
Pepin The Short King Of The Franks
| | \-----
Chrotrudis
| /-----
Charlemagne King Of France
| | | /-----
Caribert Count Of Laon
| | \-----
Bertha Of Laon, Countess Of Laon
| | \-----
Gisele
| /-----
Karlman (Pepin) King Of Italy And Bavaria
| | | /-----
Agilolf
| | | /-----
Gerold I Count In The Anglachau
| | \-----
Hildegarde Of Swabia, Countess Of Vinzgau
| | | /-----
Hnabi Duke Of Alamannia, Count In The Linzgau
| | \-----
Emma
| | \-----
Hersuinde
| /-----
Bernard King Of Italy
| | | /-----
Pepin Of Heristal, Mayor Of Palace
| | | /-----
Charles Martel, The Hammer, Mayor Of The Palace, King Of France
| | | | \-----
Aupais
| | | /-----
Bernard Duke, Abbot Of Saint Quentin
| | | | | /-----
Gui Abbot Of Fontenelle
| | | | \-----
Chrothais
| | | | \-----
Chrolanda
| | \-----
Therres
| | | /-----
(Unk Son) Of Bavaria
| | | /-----
Caribert Count Of Laon
| | | | \-----
Bertrade De Preum
| | \-----
(Unk Dau) Of Laon
| | \-----
Gisele
| /-----
Pepin Count Of Senlis, Peronne, & St. Quentin
| | | /-----
Barnier
| | | /-----
Thiery (Not Makhir) Count Of Autun
| | | | \-----
Rolanda
| | | /-----
Saint William Count Of Auton, Marquis Of Septimania
| | | | | /-----
Charles Martel, The Hammer, Mayor Of The Palace, King Of France
| | | | \-----
Auda
| | | | \-----
Chrotrudis
| | | /-----
Caribert
| | | | \-----
Kunigunde
| | \-----
Cunigunde
| /-----
Herbert I Count Of Vermandois
| | | /-----
Childebrand I Duke Of Provence
| | | /-----
Niebelung I Historian, Lord Of Perrency
| | | /-----
Niebelung II Count Of Hesbaye
| | | /-----
Niebelung III Count Of Burgundy
| | | | | /-----
Barnier
| | | | | /-----
Thiery (Not Makhir) Count Of Autun
| | | | | | \-----
Rolanda
| | | | \-----
Bertha
| | | | | /-----
Charles Martel, The Hammer, Mayor Of The Palace, King Of France
| | | | \-----
Auda
| | | | \-----
Chrotrudis
| | | /-----
Theoderic Count Of Vermandois
| | \-----
(Unk Dau) Of Vermandois
\-----
Cunegundis Of Vermandois
| /-----
Guerra I Count Of Morvois
\-----
Beatrice Of Morvois
\-----
Eve Of Roussillon
Descendants of Herbert I Count In The Kinziggau
2nd generation
3rd generation
4th generation
5th generation