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Person Info

• Name: Eckbert The Loyal Count In Dreini And Ittergaus
• Sex: M
• Birth: Abt 760 ^b
• Death: After 834 ^d


Parents:

• Father:
  
• (Unk) Saxon

Family:
Marriage:

• Ida on 786 .^m1
  
• Ida Death: 21 Nov 838

Children:

1. Matilda Death: Abt 915 in Hervorden
2. Immed I Count Of West Saxony
3. Ida Birth: Abt 785

Bibliography

Sources for birth and parent Information

date:

abt 760 [Ref: Christian Settipani SGM 12/5/1998-B],

sister:

Edith wife of Welf I [Ref: Paget HRHCharles p221]

Sources for death Information

date:

after 834 [Ref: Moriarty Plantagenet p26]

last named in 811 [Ref: Christian Settipani SGM 12/5/1998-B]

Sources with Information about marriage to Ida

date:

[Ref: Moriarty Plantagenet p26],

child:

[Ref: Christian Settipani SGM 12/8/1998, Moriarty Plantagenet p26]

Research Notes:
Count in Dreini and Ittergaus [Ref: Moriarty Plantagenet p26]

a Saxon noble, conquered by Charlemagne in 783 [Ref: Moriarty Plantagenet p26]

According to the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, Ecgberht was forced into exile among the Franks by King Offa of Mercia and Offa's son-in-law King Beorhtric of Wessex, but he returned on Beorhtric's death in 800 [802] and succeeded to the kingdom of Wessex. From his accession in 802 until 825, though, there is only one mention of Ecgberht in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle: in 813 [815] he harried in Cornwall from east to west. Kirby (1991, p. 189) says, "So little is known of Ecgberht's activities between 802 and 825 that it is easy to imagine him reigning unobtrusively in Wessex across those years...." However, in an article written about 100 years ago and not cited (so far as I know) by any modern historian, Howorth (1900, p. 77) argues that during the first quarter of the ninth century Ecgberht was largely abroad at Charlemagne's court, and that when he was in England, he was there not as the king of Wessex but as a dependant of the Mercian king. Howorth believes that Ecgberht of Wessex is identical to the Saxon count Egbert, for whom various activities in this period are documented; for example, in 809 Egbert and other Saxon counts took possession of Esesfelth in the Danish March for Charlemagne, and in 811 Egbert is one of twelve counts who were nominated by Charlemagne to negotiate about the Danish frontier with an equal number of Danes. This Egbert was the husband of St. Ida, according to her biography. Banniza and Muller (1939, p. 27) state that the Saxon duke Liudolf, grandfather of Henry the Fowler, was a son of Egbert and Ida. They also propose that Mathilde (grandmother of Henry's wife Mathilde), who was wife of the Saxon count Immed and abbess of Herford (Hervorden) when she died ca. 915, might be a daughter of Egbert and Ida, but, chronologically, she is more likely to be a granddaughter.
Howorth suggests that Wessex was subject to Mercia until the Battle of Ellandune in 825, and offers as evidence some grants of land in Berkshire to the abbey of Abingdon by the King of Mercia during this period; no mention of Ecgberht or any other independent ruler of Wessex occurs in these grants. However, Berkshire, later a focus of the Wessex Kingdom, seems not to have been part of Wessex during Ecgberht's life; Yorke (1995, p. 95) says that "Berkshire apparently remained a Mercian province and was not united with the other shires of Wessex until the reign of Aethelwulf (839-858)." It is the case, though, that no charter or document granted or conferred by Ecgberht is known until 824 or so. And if we consider Ecgberht's later spectacular military successes, they do seem more likely to follow from Egbert's activities on the continent than from an almost uneventful reign in Wessex from 802 to 825.
Howorth (1900, p. 77) mentions what he views as an enigmatic phrase in three charters of Ecgberht from 826 and in some other documents. The three charters are dated A.D. 826, in the 24th year of Ecgberht's reign and the 14th year of his ducatus. Howorth speculates that Ecgberht may have been a dux (ealdorman or perhaps reeve) under the Mercian king. These charters are included in P. H. Sawyer's Anglo-Saxon Charters: An Annotated Handlist and Bibliography, with the numbers 272, 275, and 276. They are classified by Edwards (1988, p. 315) as "charters preserved only in later copies containing a mixture of authentic and spurious material, with a preponderance of spurious elements." Note, however, that Edwards postulates (pp. 160-1) that there was an authentic charter of 826 in which Ecgberht granted land (probably at Alton Priors, Wiltshire) to Burhheard, and she suggests that the dating clause in S272 and other extant charters probably was copied from this document. In discussing S272, she says (p. 154) that the meaning of the phrase "14th of his Ôducatus'" is obscure and "should probably be interpreted as an elaboration added to a clause probably genuine in itself and originally forming part of an authentic charter;" on the other hand, Kelley's hypothesis below, makes this phrase less obscure and thus less suspicious.
Prof. David H. Kelley believes that Ecgberht was created a dux by Charlemagne, and that a Carolingian dux had a status at least as great as an English kinglet. If Ecgberht considered himself a king in the 24th year of his reign, he would not be particularly likely to style himself also as a dux (ealdorman) under, e.g., the Mercian king, but he might proudly record his status as a dux (military leader) of the Carolingian empire. Prof. Kelley is responsible for directing attention to Howorth's article and the fact that its hypothesis implies that Ecgberht's wife Raedburh might well be the same as St. Ida. There is a brief mention of the Raedburh/St. Ida issue in Kelley (1977-78, p. 5).
SOURCES:
Banniza v. Bazan, Heinrich, and Richard Muller. 1939. Deutsche Geschichte in Ahnentafeln. Berlin: Alfred Metzner Verlag.
Edwards, Heather. 1988. The Charters of the Early West Saxon Kingdom. BAR British Series 198. Oxford: B.A.R.
Howorth, H. H. 1900. "Ecgberht, King of the West Saxons and the Kent Men, and his Coins." The Numismatic Chronicle, and Journal of the Numismatic Society, ser. 3, 20: 66-87.
Kelley, David H. 1977-78. "Who Descends from King David?" Toledot 1 (no. 3, Winter): 3-5.
Kirby, D. P. 1991. The Earliest English Kings. London: Unwin Hyman.
Taylor, Nathaniel L. 1997. "Saint William, King David, and Makhir: A Controversial Medieval Descent." The American Genealogist 72: 205-223.
Yorke, Barbara. 1995. Wessex in the Early Middle Ages. London and New York: Leicester University Press. [Ref: Don Stone SGM 12/5/1998]

Liudolf is not attested as Ecbert's son, and he was probably not. He is probably identical to Liudolf, brother of Ecbert and son of Cobbo, that E. Hlawitchka think to be Cobbo II, grandson of Ecbert, but that I suppose to be Cobbo I, son of Ecbert. For that matter, Liudolf was probably born c. 805 : he died is in 866, and his wife was born in 806 (she died in 913 at 107 !) [Ref: Christian Settipani SGM 12/5/1998-B]

Ecbert of Saxe was born, for prosopographical considerations, c. 760. He is last named in 811. This fit well enough with the english Ecbert. But the name Ecbert is not rare in Saxe in the first part of the IX century. We know many of them, and many Liudolf. The onomastic argument and a good chronology does not suffice.
Ecbert of Saxe seems to have a sister named Hildeswindis. This woman sister of an Ecbert is possessioned at Wackenheim and so is Adela, daughter of duke Ecbert.
More difficult : neither the Vita Idae (admittandly a later one), neither the Translatio Pusinnae, neither the Translatio S. Viti (the last two contemporary) says nothing about regal or english origin. Last, we know well enough the posterity of Ecbert of Saxe (4 descendants to the first generation, 9 to the second, and 9 to the third) and not a single name is an anglo-saxon one.
To conclude : an attractive hypothesis, but too poorly documented at the moment. One should resist to the temptation. [Ref: Christian Settipani SGM 12/5/1998-B]



Pedigree of Eckbert The Loyal Count In Dreini And Ittergaus
 /-----(Unk) Saxon
Eckbert The Loyal Count In Dreini And Ittergaus



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