Family:
Marriage:
Bibliography
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Richardson, Douglas, Eleanor, 1st wife of John Comyn Earl of Buchan. Posting to soc.genealogy.medieval (email list GEN-MEDIEVAL) on 1/8/2014. Subject: C.P. Addition: Eleanor, 1st wife of John Comyn [died 1308], Earl of Buchan. Available at https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/OhryZml9cgM/m/ZXIHcZ4O_Q8J. Author address: royalancestry at msn dot com. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Douglas Richardson SGM 1/8/2014-193807].
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Ravilious, John, Eleanor, 1st wife of John Comyn Earl of Buchan. Posting to soc.genealogy.medieval (email list GEN-MEDIEVAL) on 1/9/2014. Subject: C.P. Addition: Eleanor, 1st wife of John Comyn [died 1308], Earl of Buchan. Available at https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/OhryZml9cgM/m/jQXb7lxr9EsJ. Author address: Therav3 at aol dot com. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: John Ravilious SGM 1/9/2014-070456].
- brother:
- King John de BALLIOL [Ref: Douglas Richardson SGM 1/8/2014-193807]
Sources with Information about marriage to John COMYN, Earl Of Buchan
- date:
- first marriage of John [Ref: Douglas Richardson SGM 1/8/2014-193807]
Research Notes:
In his article on the Balliol family published in Essays on the Nobility of
Medieval Scotland in 1985, Dr. Geoffrey Stell identifies the sister of King
John de Balliol as ?Eleanor, wife of John Comyn, of Badenoch.
On page 158, Dr. Stell states: "This identification is based on English
record evidence of 1283 and 1284 relating to a John Comyn and his wife
Eleanor, who were involved in judicial pleas in Yorkshire but at that time
were staying in Galloway."
Unfortunately it appears this identification is incorrect. Recently I
located a fine dated 1282, which involves Alexander Comyn, Earl of Buchan, and
his wife, Elizabeth, and their son and heir, John Comyn. The fine makes it
clear that it was John Comyn, son of Earl Alexander, whose wife was named
Eleanor, not John Comyn of Badenoch.
The transcript reads as follows:
"Fine. Mich., 10 Edward I. 1282.
Between John Comyn and Eleanor his wife, plaintiffs, and Alexander Comyn,
earl of Buchan, and Elisabeth, his wife, defendants of the manors of Whitwick,
Markefeld, Bochardeston, Neuton (Unthank) Swanyngton, Southwode and
Shepesheued. The defendants grant the premises to John and Eleanor, for term
of the lives of the earl and Elisabeth, and to the joint issue of John and
Eleanor, doing the service of half a knight's fee for all service. And if John
have no issue by Eleanor, the manors will entirely remain after the deaths of
the earl and Elisabeth, to the heirs of Elisabeth. And for this
acknowledgement John and Eleanor gave the earl and Elisabeth one sore hawk."
[Ref: Douglas Richardson SGM 1/8/2014-193807]
It appears that the 1282 fine is a red herring. The lands in Leicestershire
noted in the fine, while not covered in VCH as of yet, are evidently part of
the Quincy share of the Leicester inheritance (you will find Botcheston and
Newtown Unthank abt 2 miles W of Groby; Swannington and Whitwick, abt 10 miles
NW). Note that the grant is for the joint issue of John Comyn and Eleanor,
"And if John have no issue by Eleanor, the manors will entirely remain after
the deaths of the earl and Elisabeth, to the heirs of Elisabeth". A strange
limitation if John were Elisabeth's eldest son and heir, esp. if John were to
have issue by a wife after Eleanor....?
Eleanor de Baliol's mother Dervorguilla was the Lady of Galloway, so for
John Comyn and his wife Eleanor to have a 'base' in Galloway would not be
surprising. Dervorguilla, half-sister of Elen of Galloway, was Elizabeth de
Quincy's aunt (half-aunt actually), so that Eleanor de Baliol and Elizabeth de
Quincy (Countess of Buchan) were first cousins. What the motivation for this
grant of Leicestershire lands was we can only guess, but clearly Elizabeth was
not granting away these lands without strings. It is clear that Eleanor was
the individual closely connected to Elisabeth, not John Comyn.
The account in Surtees has sufficient inaccuracies to render it undesirable
as support for this theory: in re: John Baliol's "three youngest sisters", the
account on p. 57 states in part,
" Eda, married to William Lindsay; Cecily, to John de Burgh, grandson of
Hubert, Earl of Kent; and Mary, wife of John Lord Comyn of Badenoch (father of
the Red Comyn) whom Bruce and Kirkpatrick of Closeburn slew at the altar of
Dumfries church in 1306. "
We know John de Burgh married Cecily, possibly the third of the sisters.
The reading of the text seems to indicate the author thought John Comyn,
husband of the Baliol sister, was he 'whom Bruce....slew' when in fact we know
it was the son John Comyn ("the Red") who died at Dumfries in 1306. As to the
existence of 'Margaret, John Baliol's eldest sister', I find these is no
evidence. There were in fact only three sisters that can currently be: Ada was
in fact the eldest sister, in re: see extended discussion of Ada's descendants
as representatives (or claimants if you will) of the Baliol line to the
present day.
Unless some other evidence is found, it seems the Bowes MSS. is flawed at
least in regard to the Baliol family, and that Eleanor (not Mary) was the wife
of John Comyn of Badenoch, not of John, later Earl of Buchan. [Ref: John
Ravilious SGM 1/9/2014-070456]
Actually there was no "Eleanor" de Balliol. As far as I know, the only record
which names this Balliol daughter is the Bowes MSS. which calls her Mary.
Presumably on the basis of the Bowes MSS., she was identified as Mary de
Balliol in no less than three English secondary works:
1. Hutchinson, Hist. & Antiqs. of the County Palatine of Durham 3 (1794):
232-233 (Baliol ped.).
2. Surtees, Hist. & Antiqs. of Durham 4 (1840): 57.
3. Sinclair, Heirs of the Royal House of Baliol (1870).
Besides the Bowes MSS., there is one other early account of the Balliol
daughters in Sir Thomas Gray's Scalachronica, which unfortunately does not
provide the name of John Comyn's wife. It is discussed in Hodgson, History of
Northumberland Pt. 2 Vol. 2 (1832): 41-42 (Balliol ped.) as follows:
"Ridpath quotes the Scala Chronica that "John Balliol, king of Scots, had 3
sisters - the eld. was Margaret of Gillesland; the 2nd, the lady Coucy; and
the 3rd was married to him [John Comyn] that Robert Bruce killed at Dumfries."
[Ref: Douglas Richardson SGM 1/8/2014-193807]
Pedigree of Eleanor De BALLIOL
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(Unk) De BALLIOL
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Hugh De BALLIOL
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Bernard I De BALLIOL, Baron Of Bywell
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Bernard II De BALLIOL, Baron Of Bywell
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Matilda
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Eustace De BALLIOL, Baron Of Bywell
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Agnes De PICQUIGNY
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Hugh De BALIOL, Baron Of Bywell
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Petronell
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John De BALLIOL, King Of Scotland
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Enguerrand De FONTAINES
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Aleaume De FONTAINES, Lord Of Fontaines
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Cicely De FONTAINES
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Gulbert De St. Valerie
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Bernard De St. Valerie
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(Unk Dau)
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Walter De St VALERY
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Bernard De St VALERY
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(Unk) De MONTHERY
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Elizabeth De MONTHERY
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Reginald De St VALERY, Baron Of Beckley
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Matilda
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Laure De St VALERY
Eleanor De BALLIOL
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Fergus Lord Of Galloway
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Uchtred Of Galloway
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Robert I The Devil Duke Of Normandy
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William The Conqueror King Of England
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Herleve Of Falaise
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Henry I Beauclerc King Of England
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Baldwin V Count Of Flanders
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Maud Of Flanders
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Adelaide Of France
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Sibyl/Elizabeth
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Corbet
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Robert CORBET, Lord of Alcester
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Sibyl CORBET
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Roland Lord Of Galloway, Constable Of Scotland
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Crinan The Thane Abbot Of Dunkeld
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Maldred Lord Of Carlisle
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Bethoc
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Gospatric I Earl Of Northumberland
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Uchtred Earl Of Northumberland
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Ealdgyth
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Alfgifu
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Waltheof Baron Of Allendale
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Edgar The Peaceful King Of England
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Ethelred II The Redeless King Of England
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Aelfthryth
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(Unk Dau)
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Thored Ealdorman Of Northumbria
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Alfflaed
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Gunnild Of Dunbar
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Sigrid
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Alan Lord Of Galloway, Constable Of Scotland
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(Unk) De MORVILLE
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Hugh De MORVILLE, Constable Of Scotland
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Richard De MORVILLE, Constable Of Scotland
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Hugh De BEAUCHAMP, Baron Beauchamp Of Bedford
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Robert BEAUCHAMP
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Ralph De Taillebois
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Matilda De Taillebois
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Adelina
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Beatrice BEAUCHAMP
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Elena De MORVILLE
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Gilbert De LANCASTER, Baron Of Kendal
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William I De LANCASTER, Baron Of Kendal
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Ethred Baron Of Kendal
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Goditha
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Ivo TAILEBOIS
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Beatrice
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(Unk)
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Avice De LANCASTER
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Dervorguilla Of Galloway
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Crinan The Thane Abbot Of Dunkeld
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Donnchad (Duncan I) Mac CRINAN, King Of Scots
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Bethoc
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Mael Coluim Ceann Moir (Malcolm III) Canmore Mac DONNCHAD, King Of Scots
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Sigurd Digera Earl Of Northumbria
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Sibylia Of Northumbria
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Aelflaed
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David I The Saint King Of Scots
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Edmund Ironside King Of England
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Edward Athling The Exile
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Ealgyth
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Saint Margaret Of Scotland
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Jaroslav I Grand Prince Of Kiev
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Agatha
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Ingegard
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Henry Of Huntingdon, Earl Of Huntingdon
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Beorn
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Sigurd Digera Earl Of Northumbria
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Waltheof II Earl Of Huntingdon
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Ealdred Of Bernicia
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Aelflaed
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Maud Of Huntingdon
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Eustace I Count Of Boulogne
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Lambert Of Boulogne, Count Of Lens
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Maud Of Louvain
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Judith Of Lens
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Robert I The Devil Duke Of Normandy
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Adelaide Of Normandy
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Herleve Of Falaise
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David Earl Of Huntingdon
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Rodulf De Warrene
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Ralph II De Warrene
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Beatrice De VASCOEUIL
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William De Warrene, Earl Of Surrey
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Emma
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William II De Warrene, Earl Of Surrey
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Gherbod The Fleming, Advocate Of St. Bertins
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Gundred
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Ada De WARENNE
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Robert II The Pious King Of France
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Henry I King Of France
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Constance Of Provence
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Hugh Magnus Duke Of France
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Jaroslav I Grand Prince Of Kiev
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Anne Of Kiev
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Ingegard
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Isabel De Vermandois, Countess Of Leicester
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Eudes Count Of Vermandois
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Herbert IV Count Of Vermandois
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Parvie
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Adelaide De Vermandois, Countess Of Vermandois
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Raoul III The Great Count Of Valois And Vexin
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Adela De Valois
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Adela
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Margaret Of Huntingdon
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Ranulph I De MESCHINES, Vicomte De Bayeux
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Ranulph II De MESCHINES, Vicomte De Bayeux
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Alice Of Normandy
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Ranulph III De MESCHINES, Earl Of Chester
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Richard Le Goz, Vicomte D'Avranches
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Margaret Le Goz
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Emma
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Ranulf De GERNON, Earl Of Chester, Vicomte D'Avranches
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(Unk)
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Thorold Of Buckingham, Sheriff Of Lincoln
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Lucia Of East Angies
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William MALET
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(Unk Dau)
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Esilia CRISPIN
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Hugh Of Kevelioc, Earl Of Chester
| | | /-----
William The Conqueror King Of England
| | | /-----
Henry I Beauclerc King Of England
| | | | \-----
Maud Of Flanders
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Robert The Consul De CAEN, Earl Of Gloucester
| | \-----
Maud De CAEN
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Hamon Sheriff Of Kent
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Robert FITZ HAMOND, Lord Of Tewkesbury
| | \-----
Maud FITZ HAMOND
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Roger De Montgomery, Earl Of Shrewsbury
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Sybil De Montgomery
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Mabel De Belesme
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Maud Of Chester
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Amauri III De MONTFORT
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Simon I De MONTFORT, Seigneur Of Montfort L'Amau
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Bertrade De GOMMETZ
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Amauri IV De MONTFORT, Count Of Evereux
| | | /-----
Richard Count Of Evereux
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Agnes Of Evereux
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Godehildie
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Simon De MONTFORT, Count Of Evreux
| | | /-----
Adam Of Garlande
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Anscau De Garlande, Seneschal Of France
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Agnes De Garlande
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(Unk) De Montmorency
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Bertrade De MONTFORT
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Maud
Descendants of Eleanor De BALLIOL