Individual Page

Person Info

• Name: Paula Of Maine
• Sex: F
• Birth: Abt 1030 ^b


Parents:

• Father:
  
• Herbert Count Of Maine Birth: Abt 990 Death: 13 Apr 1036

Family:
Marriage:

• John De BAUGENCY, Seigneur De La Fleche .^m1
  
• John De BAUGENCY, Seigneur De La Fleche Death: Before Abt 1097

Children:

1. Gosbert De La FLECHE
2. Enoch De La FLECHE
3. Geoffrey De La FLECHE
4. Lancelin De La FLECHE
5. Miles De La FLECHE
6. Guillaume De La FLECHE
7. Helias Count Of Maine Birth: Abt 1065 in France Death: 11 Jul 1110

Bibliography

Sources for birth and parent Information

date:

abt 1030 [Ref: Alan B. Wilson SGM 3/27/1997],

father:

[Ref: Alan B. Wilson SGM 3/27/1997, Moriarty Plantagenet p11]

either Herbert "Wake Dog" count of Maine (#18234), Hugue IV count of Maine (#23258), or NN (not of Maine) [Ref: HenryII paula000 1/10/2008]

possibly Herbert "Wake Dog" count of Maine [Ref: HenryII herbe000 1/10/2008],

mother:

possibly Berthe (#11198), dau of Eudes count of Blois [Ref: HenryII paula000 1/10/2008],

note:

ancestry of Paula is subject to a considerable amount of confusion, due to the contradictory nature of the sources [Ref: HenryII paula000 1/10/2008]

Sources with Inaccurate birth and parent Information

parents:

Hugh II Count of Maine (#32358) & Bertha of Blois (#11198) [Ref: Watney WALLOP #642]

Sources with Information about marriage to John De BAUGENCY, Seigneur De La Fleche

names:

[Ref: HenryII herbe000 1/10/2008, HenryII lance000 1/10/2008],

child:

[Ref: Alan B. Wilson SGM 3/27/1997, HenryII helia000 1/10/2008, HenryII john0000 1/10/2008, HenryII paula000 1/10/2008, Moriarty Plantagenet p11, Watney WALLOP #642]

Sources with Inaccurate marriage information

child:

by Lancelin Sire de Baugency and Paula dau Herbert Count of Maine, John de Baugency (#14349) [Ref: Watney WALLOP #642]

Research Notes:
possibly heiress of Maine [Ref: HenryII john0000 1/10/2008]

does not appear in any known contemporary document. She appears by name only in a passage of Orderic Vitalis naming the parents of Helie de la Fleche [Ref: HenryII paula000 1/10/2008]

ancestry is subject to a considerable amount of confusion, due to the contradictory nature of th esources. The main problem is the testimony of Orderic Vitalis, who contradicts himself on a umber of points (Book 3, Book 4, Book 8, Book 10, passages quoted in HenryII paula000.htm) [Ref: HenryII paula000 1/10/2008]

The succession of count Herbert "Wake-dog", Hugues IV (son of Herbert), and Herbert II (son of Hugh IV) is a straightforward consequence of information from Act. Pont. Cenom. and charter evidence, and is also one of the contradictory scenarios given by Orderic. The problem comes from trying to determine the correct relationships of various female members of the dynasty and the eventual inheritance of the county of Maine by the lords of La Fleche. For three of these women, the contradictions can be corrected with a reasonable degree of confidence:
Gersende, wife of Thibaut III/I of Blois-Champagne, then of Azzo of Liguria (Este) According to the Actus, she was a daughter of Herbert "Wake-dog" and wife successively of Thibaud of Champagne (who repudiated her) and marquis Atho (i.e., Azzo). In Book 4, Orderic would make her a daughter of Hugues IV. Thibaud's repudiation of Gersende occurred before the council of Reims in 1049 [RHF 11: 523; see Arbois de Jubainville (1859-1866), 1: 393], and it is therefore chronologically impossible for her to have been a daughter of Hugues IV (who was not married until 1045x7), so she must have been a daughter of Herbert I, as the Actus states.
Biote, wife of Gautier of Mantes (Vexin) Guillaume de Poitiers (who does not name her) makes her a sister of Hugues IV. In his confused account of Book 3, Orderic gives contradictory indications, calling her an amita of the young count Herbert (which would agree with Guillaume), but also calling her a daughter of Hugues. Since Orderic was describing events of 1064, the chronology clearly favors Guillaume's account.
Margaret, fiance of Robert of Normandy Guillaume de Poitiers calls her a daughter of Hugues IV. Book 4 of Orderic would agree with this. Book 3 of Orderic makes her a sister of Herbert II, who is erroneously given there as a son of Herbert I. Robert de Torigny, in his additions to GND, makes her a daughter of count Herbert ["..., quod Margarita, filia Herberti quondam Cinomannensis comitis, ..." GND (Rob. Tor.), viii, 2 (vol. 2, pp. 202-3)]. Here, placing Margaret as a daughter of Hugues IV would make her roughly the same age as Robert.
However, the ancestry of Paula and the exact manner of the inheritance of the county of Maine by the lords of La Fleche are problematic. All plausible scenarios would make Helie de La Fleche a descendant of count Herbert I "Wake-dog" of Maine. ... assuming that we are correct in making Helie a grandson or great-grandson of Herbert "Wake-dog", we have four possible scenarios:
Scenario 1: Book 4 is correct, and Helie's mother Paula was a daughter of count Hugues IV. Although we cannot rule this scenario out directly, two noticeable negative factors can be pointed out. One is the somewhat tight chronology already indicated above. The other is that such a descent would make Helie a clearly stronger heir in 1090 than Hugues son of Azzo, making it unclear why the nobles of Maine would have brought in an heir from Italy when a stronger claimant was available among their own people. Thus, this scenario seems less likely than some of the others.
Scenario 2: Book 8 is correct, and Helie's claim was through his paternal grandmother, a daughter of count Herbert I "Wake-dog" (in which case Paula's parentage would be unknown). It has widely been assumed that Helie's mother Paula (assuming Orderic gives her name correctly) was the heiress of Maine, and that Helie's claim to Maine was through her. Indeed, this assumption has expanded to the point that Anselme, in accepting the account of Orderic's Book 4, has assigned "Paule" as the name of the wife of Lancelin de Baugency, said to be daughter of count Herbert I [Anselme 3: 170]. If we knew that for sure that Paula was the heiress, we could reject this scenario. However, there does not appear to be any definitive reason to make this assumption. In 1090, the Manceaux rebelled against the Normans, and the countship of Maine was given to Hugues V, son of Azzo of Este and Gersende of Maine, who was brought from Italy to become count [OV viii, 11 (vol. 4, pp. 192-9)]. Only later was the countship purchased from Hugues V by the other claimant Helie de La Fleche. If Helie was only a great-grandson of a count of Maine (rather than a grandson), that would fit well enough with Orderic's account in Book 4.
Scenario 3: Helie's mother Paula was a daughter of Herbert I "Wake-dog". This scenario was the one preferred by Latouche, and he has been followed by many others since then [Latouche (1910), 113-5 (Appendice III)]. Latouche's account starts with a table intended to show what Orderic Vitalis states about the relationships. Unfortunately, because Orderic contradicts himself on several points, it is not really feasible to give a single table showing his statements about the counts of Maine, so the result is that Latouche's tabular outline of Orderic's account is misleading. Making the point that the first cousin marriage implied by Orderic is improbable, Latouche points out that Orderic erroneously assigns two daughters of Herbert I "Wake-dog" as children of Hugues IV, and concludes that he has made the same mistake with Paula. In addition to the lack of any direct evidence, the greatest difficulty with this scenario is the fact that one would have to reject both of Orderic's accounts of Helie's ancestry as incorrect, and incorporate elements of each. Although it remains a reasonable possibility, it is difficult to regard Latouche's solution as definitive.
Scenario 4: Helie's mother Paula was a granddaughter of Herbert I "Wake-dog" through a child other than Hugues IV. This scenario has been included on the list for completeness, because it represents the other way in which Helie might be a great-grandson of Herbert "Wake-dog". However, there is no good reason to believe that this alternative was true.
In conclusion, even though we can reject Scenario 4 as being improbable, and Scenario 1 seems less likely than the rest, it does not seem possible to single out one of the scenarios as being obviously preferable. Scenarios 2 and 3, and to a lesser degree Scenario 1, all remain possible. [Ref: HenryII paula000 1/10/2008]



Pedigree of Paula Of Maine
                                              /-----(Unk)
                                     /-----Roger Count Of Maine
                            /-----Hugh I Count Of Maine
                           |        |                           /-----Charlemagne King Of France
                           |        |                  /-----Louis I The Fair Emperor Of The West
                           |        |                 |         \-----Hildegarde Of Swabia, Countess Of Vinzgau
                           |        |         /-----Charles II The Bald King Of Franks, Emperor
                           |        |        |        |         /-----Guelph Count Of Andech And Bavaria
                           |        |        |         \-----Judith Of Bavaria
                           |        |        |                  \-----Edith (Heilwig) Of Saxony, Abbess Of Chelles
                           |         \-----Rothildis
                           |                 |                  /-----Richard Count Of Amiens
                           |                 |         /-----Budwine Count Of Metz
                           |                  \-----Richaut Of Metz
                           |                          |         /-----Boso III The Old Count Of Arles And Tuscany
                           |                           \-----Richilda
                   /-----Hugh II Count Of Maine
                  |        |                                    /-----Gauzelin
                  |        |                           /-----Rorick Count Of Maine
                  |        |                          |         \-----Aldatrude
                  |        |                  /-----Gausfred Count Of Maine
                  |        |                 |         \-----Bilihild
                  |        |         /-----Gauslen Count Of Maine
                  |        |        |        |                  /-----Hadrian Lord In The Worms
                  |        |        |        |         /-----Eudes Count Of Orleans
                  |        |        |        |        |         \-----Waldast
                  |        |        |         \-----(Unk Dau) Of Orleans
                  |        |        |                 |         /-----Leuthard Count Of Fezenac
                  |        |        |                  \-----Engeltrude
                  |        |        |                           \-----Grimihild
                  |         \-----Bilichildis Of Maine
          /-----Hugh III Count Of Maine
 /-----Herbert Count Of Maine
Paula Of Maine



Descendants of Paula Of Maine

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