Family:
Children:
- Ralph De MONTHERMER Death: Before 1340
Marriage:
Children:
- Mary De MONTHERMER Birth: Abt 1298
Death: After 30 Mar 1371
- Thomas De MONTHERMER, Lord Monthermer Birth: 4 Oct 1301
Death: 24 Jun 1340 in Sluys
- Edward De MONTHERMER, Lord Monthermer Birth: Apr 1304
Death: Before 3 Feb 1339/40
Marriage:
Bibliography
-
Altschul, Michael, A Baronial Family in Medieval England: The Clares, 1217-1314. Baltimore: John Hopkins Press, 1965. Dana Library (Rutgers Newark) CS439.C6285. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Altschul CLARE [p#][0-9]*].
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Verity, Brad, Thomas de Monthermer, son and heir of Ralph de Monthermer. Posting to soc.genealogy.medieval (email list GEN-MEDIEVAL) on 7/16/2019. Subject: C.P. Addition: Sir Thomas de Monthermer [died 1340], son and heir of Ralph de Monthermer, sometime Earl of Gloucester & Hertford [died 1325]. Available at https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/xO-d3160HR8/m/g33-gHcwAwAJ. Author address: royaldescent at hotmail dot com. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Brad Verity SGM 7/16/2019-005522].
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Burke, Sir John Bernard, Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Peerage Baronetage and Knightage. 99th edition. London: Burke's Peerage, 1949. Available at http://archive.org/details/burkesgenealogic1949unse. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Burke Peerage [cx0-9]*].
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Previte-Orton, C. W., The Shorter Cambridge Medieval History, Cambridge: University Press, 1952. Reprinted with corrections 1960. Available at (part 1) http://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.149173 and (part 2) http://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.149602. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: CMH p[0-9]*].
-
Cokayne, George Edward, Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain, and the United Kingdom, extant, extinct, or dormant, vol 01 A-Basing. London: St Catherine Press, 1910. Reprinted (4 per page) Gloucester: A Sutton, 1982. Available at https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/271412 Vol 1 also available at http://archive.org/completepeerageo01coka Information from this source tagged as [Ref: CP I [Ap][p0-9].*].
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Cokayne, George Edward, Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain, and the United Kingdom, extant, extinct, or dormant, vol 04 Dacre-Dysart. London: St Catherine Press, 1916. Reprinted (4 per page) Gloucester: A Sutton, 1982. Available at https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/271412 Vol 4 also available at http://archive.org/completepeerageo04byucoka Information from this source tagged as [Ref: CP IV [Ap][p0-9].*].
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Cokayne, George Edward, Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain, and the United Kingdom, extant, extinct, or dormant, vol 09, Moels-Nugent. London: St Catherine Press, 1936. Reprinted (4 per page) Gloucester: A Sutton, 1982. Available at https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/271412 Information from this source tagged as [Ref: CP IX [Ap][p0-9].*].
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Cokayne, George Edward, Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain, and the United Kingdom, extant, extinct, or dormant, vol 05 E-Goojerat. London: St Catherine Press, 1926. Reprinted (4 per page) Gloucester: A Sutton, 1982. Available at https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/271412 Information from this source tagged as [Ref: CP V [Ap][p0-9].*].
-
Cokayne, George Edward, Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain, and the United Kingdom, extant, extinct, or dormant, vol 06 Gordon-Huntley. London: St Catherine Press, 1926. Reprinted (4 per page) Gloucester: A Sutton, 1982. Available at https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/271412 Information from this source tagged as [Ref: CP VI [Ap][p0-9].*].
-
Phillips, Chris, Proposed Corrections and Additions to the Complete Peerage, http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/cp/index.shtml Information from this source tagged as [Ref: CP++(proposed) .*].
-
Clutterbuck, Robert, History and Antiquities of the County of Hertford, London: Nichols, Son, and Bentley, 1815-27, v1-3. Available at https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/188626. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Clutterbuck Hertford v[1-3]p[0-9]*].
-
Richardson, Douglas, Origin of Sir Ralph de Monthermer, Earl of Gloucester. Posting to soc.genealogy.medieval (email list GEN-MEDIEVAL) on 11/29/2011. Subject: C.P. Addition: Origin of Sir Ralph de Monthermer, Earl of Gloucester [died 1325]. Available at https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/5sQTEnOnwuk/m/Ez2ZVIoVPwMJ. Author address: celticprince at gmail dot com. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Douglas Richardson SGM 11/29/2011-122901].
-
Richardson, Douglas, Origin of Ralph de Monthermer, Earl of Gloucester and Hertford. Posting to soc.genealogy.medieval (email list GEN-MEDIEVAL) on 5/21/2007. Subject: C.P. Addition: Clue to Origin of Ralph de Monthermer, Earl of Gloucester and Hertford. Available at https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/pnkLg-PZ9zo/m/deZdVzG0BQAJ. Author address: royalancestry at msn dot com. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Douglas Richardson SGM 5/21/2007-113552].
-
Richardson, Douglas, Thomas de Monthermer, son and heir of Ralph de Monthermer. Posting to soc.genealogy.medieval (email list GEN-MEDIEVAL) on 7/14/2019. Subject: C.P. Addition: Sir Thomas de Monthermer [died 1340], son and heir of Ralph de Monthermer, sometime Earl of Gloucester & Hertford [died 1325]. Available at https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/xO-d3160HR8/m/5aC1z5a_AgAJ. Author address: celticprince at gmail dot com. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Douglas Richardson SGM 7/14/2019-142652].
-
Richardson, Douglas, Isabel Despenser. Posting to soc.genealogy.medieval (email list GEN-MEDIEVAL) on 8/10/2002. Subject: CP Addition: Isabel le Despenser's 1st marriage to Gilbert de Clare. Available at https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/rcWJLLlamEQ/m/Qmm0fRoUtdwJ. Author address: royalancestry at msn dot com. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Douglas Richardson SGM 8/10/2002-232335].
-
Schwennicke, Detlev, ed., Europaische Stammtafeln: Stammtafeln zur Geschichte der europaischen Staaten, New Series. II: Die Ausserdeutschen Staaten Die Regierenden Hauser der Ubrigen Staaten Europas. Marburg: Verlag von J. A. Stargardt, 1984. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: ES II #[0-9]*].
-
Schwennicke, Detlev, ed., Europaische Stammtafeln: Stammtafeln zur Geschichte der europaischen Staaten, New Series. III.1 (#1-#200): Herzogs und Grafenhauser des Heiligen Romischen Reiches Andere Europaische Furstenhauser. Marburg: Verlag von J. A. Stargardt, 1984. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: ES III.1 #[0-9]*].
-
Faris, David, Plantagenet ancestry of seventeenth century colonists: the descent from the later Plantagenet Kings of England, Henry III, Edward I, Edward II, and Edward III, of emigrants from England and Wales to the North American colonies before 1701, second edition. Boston: New England Historical Genealogical Society, 1999. NYPL APR (New England) 01-1513. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Faris PA2 p[0-9ivxc]*].
-
Ravilious, John, Detailed ancestry of Muriel Dinham, part II. Posting to soc.genealogy.medieval (email list GEN-MEDIEVAL) on 12/18/2005. Subject: CP Addition: Eleanor de Montagu, wife of Sir John de Dinham. Available at https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/LQOOvM9g1G0/m/fV1SN4H2F0oJ. Author address: Therav3 at aol dot com. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: John Ravilious SGM 12/18/2005-192519].
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Ravilious, John, Origin of Ralph de Monthermer, Earl of Gloucester and Hertford. Posting to soc.genealogy.medieval (email list GEN-MEDIEVAL) on 5/21/2007. Subject: C.P. Addition: Clue to Origin of Ralph de Monthermer, Earl of Gloucester and Hertford. Available at https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/pnkLg-PZ9zo/m/RRp20oKpRwAJ. Author address: Therav3 at aol dot com. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: John Ravilious SGM 5/21/2007-155751].
-
Paget, Gerald, The Lineage and Ancestry of H.R.H. Prince Charles, Prince of Wales. London: Charles Skilton Ltd, 1977. Nypl ARF+ 78-835. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Paget HRHCharles p[0-9]*].
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Richardson, Douglas, Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families. Baltimore, MD: Genelogical Publishing Co, 2004. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Richardson PA p[0-9]*].
-
Richardson, Douglas, Royal Ancestry. Salt Lake City, Utah: Douglas Richardson, 2013. NYPL JFF 16-1184 v1-5 Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v1[pc][0-9]*].
-
Richardson, Douglas, Royal Ancestry. Salt Lake City, Utah: Douglas Richardson, 2013. NYPL JFF 16-1184 v1-5 Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p[0-9]*].
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Richardson, Douglas, Royal Ancestry. Salt Lake City, Utah: Douglas Richardson, 2013. NYPL JFF 16-1184 v1-5 Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v3p[0-9]*].
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Richardson, Douglas, Royal Ancestry. Salt Lake City, Utah: Douglas Richardson, 2013. NYPL JFF 16-1184 v1-5 Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v4p[0-9]*].
-
Roberts, Gary Boyd, The Royal Descents of 600 Immigrants to the American Colonies or the United States: who were themselves notable or left descendants notable in American history, with a 2008 Addendum, Coda, and Final Additions. Baltimore, MD: Gen Pub Co, 2008. NYPL APK 08-4216. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Roberts RD600 p[0-9]*].
-
Paul, Sir James Balfour, Scots Peerage: founded on Wood's edition of Sir Robert Douglas's peerage of Scotland; containing an historical and genealogical account of the nobility of that Kingdom. Edinburgh: David Douglas, 1904. NYPL ARO (Scots Peerage) (too fragile to copy). Available at https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/216265. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: SP IV p[0-9]*].
-
Sanders, I. J., English Baronies, A Study of Their Origin and Descent 1086-1327. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1960. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Sanders Baronies p[0-9]*].
-
Weis, Frederick Lewis, Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr, David Faris, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who came to America before 1700, 7th Edition, Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co, 1992. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Weis AR7 #[0-9][0-9]*[A-Z]*].
Sources for birth and parent Information
- date:
- [Ref: Faris PA2 p83, Weis AR7 #8A]
- abt 1262 [Ref: John Ravilious SGM 12/18/2005-192519]
- d 1325 aged 63 [Ref: CP VI p348]
Sources for death Information
- date:
- [Ref: CP IX p142, CP VI p348, ES II #84, ES III.1 #156, Faris PA2 p83,
John Ravilious SGM 12/18/2005-192519, Paget HRHCharles p19]
- 10 May (or 5 Apr) 1325 [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v1p218, Richardson
RoyalAnc v3p256]
- 10 May or 5 Apr 1325 [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p198]
- 1325 [Ref: Altschul CLARE #2, Sanders Baronies p42, Weis AR7 #8A]
Sources with Inaccurate death Information
- date:
- 1307 [Ref: CMH p892]
Sources for burial Information
- place:
- [Ref: CP IX p142, CP VI p348, Faris PA2 p83, John Ravilious SGM
12/18/2005-192519, Richardson RoyalAnc v1p218, Richardson RoyalAnc v2p198,
Richardson RoyalAnc v3p256]
Sources with Information about marriage to unknown
- child:
- [Ref: CP IX p142(k)]
Sources with Information about marriage to Joan PLANTAGENET
- date:
- [Ref: ES II #84, ES III.1 #156, Paget HRHCharles p19]
- 1297 [Ref: Altschul CLARE #2, CP IX p140, Weis AR7 #8A]
- Jan 1297, as first marriage of Ralph and second of Joan [Ref: John
Ravilious SGM 12/18/2005-192519]
- early in 1297 [Ref: CP V p709, CP V p710, Faris PA2 p83, Richardson
RoyalAnc v2p197]
- second marriage of Joan [Ref: Burke Peerage ccliv, CMH p608, CMH p892,
Clutterbuck Hertford v3p226, Faris PA2 p283, Richardson PA p19, Richardson PA
pxxviii, Richardson RoyalAnc v1c2, Richardson RoyalAnc v1p70, Sanders Baronies
p42(8)],
- names:
- [Ref: CP IV AppH p670, CP V p736f],
- child:
- [Ref: Brad Verity SGM 7/16/2019-005522, CP IX p143, CP IX p144, CP V
p374, Douglas Richardson SGM 7/14/2019-142652, Faris PA2 p242, Faris PA2 p84,
John Ravilious SGM 12/18/2005-192519, Richardson RoyalAnc v2p200, Richardson
RoyalAnc v4p113, Roberts RD600 p326, SP IV p12, Weis AR7 #8A]
Sources with Information about marriage to Isabel DESPENSER
- date:
- before 20 Nov 1318 [Ref: CP IX p140, Faris PA2 p83, Richardson RoyalAnc
v1p218, Richardson RoyalAnc v2p197]
- second marriage of Isabel [Ref: CP VI p348]
- second marriage of Ralph and third of Isabel [Ref: John Ravilious SGM
12/18/2005-192519]
- shortly before 20 Nov 1318, pardoned 12 Aug 1319 [Ref: Richardson
RoyalAnc v3p256]
- third marriage of Isabel [Ref: CP++(proposed) Clare 12/31/2006 (CP III
p246(b)), Douglas Richardson SGM 8/10/2002-232335, Richardson RoyalAnc v2p443]
Research Notes:
1st Lord Monthermer, of Barony cr 1309 [Ref: CP IX p140]
1st Lord Monthermer [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v1p218, Richardson RoyalAnc
v3p256, Richardson RoyalAnc v4p113, Roberts RD600 p326, Weis AR7 #8A]
Lord Monthermer [Ref: CP V p374]
1st Earl of Atholl, of Earldom cr 1306 [Ref: CP I p306]
Earl of Gloucester (j.u.) [Ref: CP V p374, Richardson RoyalAnc v3p256]
sometimes Earl of Gloucester and Hereford [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v1p218]
Earl of Gloucester and Hertford [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v4p113]
Knt [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v1p218, Richardson RoyalAnc v3p256]
parentage is unknown [Ref: CP V p710]
transcript of St. Edmundsbury Chronicle which covers the period, 1296-1301, as
published in English Historical Review, 58 (1943): 51-78.
Included in the Chronicle is the following information regarding Ralph de
Monthermer, 2nd husband of Joan of Acre, daughter of King Edward I of England:
pg. 63 "Mortuo comite Glovernie Gilberto adhesit quidem iuvenis nomine
Radulphus de marchia oriundus cognomine Mowhermer a secretis comitisse; quo
militaribus a rege peticione dicte comitisse accincto sollempnitate tepide vel
publice non promulgata dictam comitassam desponsavit."
Offlist Matt Tompkins has kindly provided me a translation of the above
text:
"After the death of Gilbert, earl of Gloucester, a youth called Ralph, born
in the March, surnamed Mowhermer, became intimate with the countess; knighted
by the king at the said countess' request, he married the said countess with
little ceremony and no public announcement."
Matt added the following comment:
"I imagine for you the crucial phrase is "de Marchia oriundus". Oriundus is
often translated as "born", "native", but annoyingly for your purposes it
wasn't a precise synonym for those words, it had a slightly wider meaning,
comprehending "springing from", "originating", though usually in the sense of
birth or at least ancestry." [Ref: Douglas Richardson SGM 11/29/2011-122901]
possibly related to Ralph Blewett, lord of Ragland, who married Avis, sister
of Gilbert de Monthermer (Visitations of Devon 1564) [Ref: Douglas Richardson
SGM 11/29/2011-122901]
native of Wales, and near related to Sir John Bluet, who served as his
bachelor in Scotland in 1303 [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v3p256]
possibly grandson of William de Meisnilhermer, lord of Tunstal in the
barony of Bolam, Northumberland [Ref: CP IX p140(c)]
styled Earl of Gloucester and Hertford during life of first wife Joan [Ref: CP
IX p140, CP V p736f]
enjoyed the title of Earl of Gloucester until the death of Joan in 1307 [Ref:
Sanders Baronies p42(8)]
Privy Councillor [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v1p218, Richardson RoyalAnc v2p197,
Richardson RoyalAnc v3p256]
MacEwen has informed me that on 28 October 1303, a safe conduct was granted as
Skamskynel to Ralph de Monthermer, Earl of Gloucester, and to his "bachelor
and cousin," Sir John Bluet [Reference: Joseph Bain, Calendar of Documents
relating to Scotland, 4 (1888): 370].
The Sir John Bluet named in this record would surely be the Sir John Bluet,
died 1317, of Silchester, Hampshire and Lacock, Wiltshire, which Sir John is a
lineal descendant of the Ralph Bluet, of same, who married c. 1150 Isabel de
Beaumont, widow of Gilbert Fitz Gilbert, Earl of Pembroke. [Ref: Douglas
Richardson SGM 5/21/2007-113552]
I'd like to make an alternate suggestion, however. Given that Sir John Bluet
is identified as the 'bachelor and cousin' of Ralph Monthermer in 1303, John
Bluet was clearly junior in age to Ralph in age (and rank) at that time. There
are pedigrees of the Bluet family which allege a marriage of Ralph Bluet to a
"Llowis, sister of Gilbert de Monthermer, Earl of Hereford and Gloucester"
[Vivian's Vis. Cornwall, "Blewett of Colan"] or to "Avis, sister of Gilbert de
Monthermer" [Vis. Devon, 1564, "Blewett"]. Specific errors in these
identifications are obvious, but the implication that Ralph de Monthermer had
a sister married to Ralph Bluet leads one to surmise that John Bluet was most
likely a nephew (presumably "consanguineus" in the original Latin text as
translated in Bain), and not 'cousin' (modern definitiion), of Ralph de
Monthermer. [Ref: John Ravilious SGM 5/21/2007-155751]
1307: keeper of Caerlyon, Cardiff, Caerfilly, Lantrissan, newburgh, and
Usk Castles [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v3p256]
Keeper of Cardiff Castle [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v4p113]
1308: Steward of the lands of Earl of Buchan [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v3p256]
1311: Guardian and Lieutenant in Scotland [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v1p218,
Richardson RoyalAnc v3p256]
Guardian and Lieutenant in Scotland [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v4p113]
1311: Steward of the lands of John ap Adam [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v3p256]
1315-20: Justice of the Forest south of Trent [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc
v1p218, Richardson RoyalAnc v3p256]
Warden of the Royal Foreses south of Trent [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v4p113]
Keeper of Cardiff Castle [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v4p113, Weis AR7 #8A]
possibly grandson of William de Meismilhermer, lord of Tunstal in the
barony of Bolam, Northumberland, in 1242 [Ref: CP IX p140(c)]
married Joan of Acre without her father's consent [Ref: Paget HRHCharles p19]
Aug 1297: summoned to Parliament as Earl of Gloucester and Hertford;
earldoms passed to stepson, Gilbert de Clare following death of wife Joan
on 23 Apr 1307 [Ref: John Ravilious SGM 12/18/2005-192519]
Jul 22 1298: Knight, serving with the army of King Edward I in Scotland;
fought at Battle of Falkirk [Ref: John Ravilious SGM 12/18/2005-192519]
Feb 1301: third of the barons who sealed the Barons' Letter to the Pope,
in response to the Scots letter to Boniface VIII in 1298 defying the
claimed English superiority [Ref: John Ravilious SGM 12/18/2005-192519]
Oct 12 1306: his father-in-law, Edward I, conferred on him the whole of
Annandale, with the title of Earl of Atholl; for 5000 marks he resigned such
title in favor of the son of the late Earl on 24 Jun 1307 [Ref: CP I p306]
married Isabel Despenser without king's permission [Ref: CP IX p140]
1309: received a grant of Barony of Erlestoke, on death of Matthew Fitz
John [Ref: Sanders Baronies p42]
1314: fought at Banockburn [Ref: Weis AR7 #8A]
Jun 24-5 1314: fought at battle of Bannockburn, captured by Scots,
released by King Robert [Ref: John Ravilious SGM 12/18/2005-192519]
Pedigree of Ralph De MONTHERMER, Lord Monthermer
Ralph De MONTHERMER, Lord Monthermer
Descendants of Ralph De MONTHERMER, Lord Monthermer
2nd generation
3rd generation
4th generation
5th generation