Individual Page


Family:
Marriage: Children:
  1. Richard De Redvers, Earl Of Devon Birth: 1 Death: Abt 21 Apr 1162
  2. Henry De REVIERS Birth: 2 Death: After 1161
  3. William De REVIERS, Earl Of Devon Birth: 1155 Death: Abt 8 Sep 1217
  4. Hawise De REDVERS Death: Abt 1215
  5. Adelicia De REDVERS

Bibliography
  1. Cokayne, George Edward, Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain, and the United Kingdom, extant, extinct, or dormant, vol 04 Dacre-Dysart. London: St Catherine Press, 1916. Reprinted (4 per page) Gloucester: A Sutton, 1982. Available at https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/271412 Vol 4 also available at http://archive.org/completepeerageo04byucoka Information from this source tagged as [Ref: CP IV [Ap][p0-9].*].
  2. Keats-Rohan, K.S.B., Domesday Descendants, A Prosopography of Persons Occurring in English Documents 1066-1166. Vol II: Pipe Rolls to Cartae Baronum. Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk: Boydell Press, 2002. NYPL ARF 03-4178 vol 2. Corrections at http://users.ox.ac.uk/~prosop/domesday-descendants-corrigenda.pdf Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Keats-Rohan DD p[0-9]*].
  3. Keats-Rohan, K.S.B., Domesday People, A Prosopography of Persons Occurring in English Documents 1066-1166. Vol I: Domesday Book. Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk: Boydell Press, 1999. NYPL ARF 03-4178 vol 1. Corrections in Volume II (Domesday Descendants) pp 4-5. Further corrections at http://users.ox.ac.uk/~prosop/domesday-people-corrigenda.pdf Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Keats-Rohan DP p[0-9]*].
  4. Stewart, Peter, Countess Lucy of Devon. Posting to soc.genealogy.medieval (email list GEN-MEDIEVAL) on 4/2/2007. Subject: Countess Lucy of Devon [was Re: FitzRichards]. Available at https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/U8ETY0AGywU/m/P1w3usKz89IJ. Author address: p_m_stewart at msn dot com. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Peter Stewart SGM 4/2/2007-173508].
  5. Richardson, Douglas, Royal Ancestry. Salt Lake City, Utah: Douglas Richardson, 2013. NYPL JFF 16-1184 v1-5 Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v5p[0-9]*].
  6. Weis, Frederick Lewis, Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr, David Faris, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who came to America before 1700, 7th Edition, Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co, 1992. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Weis AR7 #[0-9][0-9]*[A-Z]*].

Sources for birth and parent Information
parents:
Nigel & sister of Judahel de Totnes [Ref: Keats-Rohan DP p286]
Sources with Inaccurate birth and parent Information
parents:
Richard fitz Gilbert de Clare (#90112) & Adelisa of Chester (#10214) [Ref: Keats-Rohan DD p246]
Sources for burial Information
place:
[Ref: CP IV p312]
Sources with Information about marriage to Baldwin De REVIERS, Earl Of Devon
names:
[Ref: Keats-Rohan DD p657],
child:
[Ref: CP IV AppH p673, CP IV AppI p771, CP IV p312, CP IV p315, Keats-Rohan DD p658, Keats-Rohan DD p768, Richardson RoyalAnc v5p277, Weis AR7 #50]
Research Notes:
parentage unknown [Ref: Keats-Rohan DD p657]

Both Alfred son of Judhael and Juhel son of Nigel were close to Baldwin I de Redvers, Earl of Devon, and head of a network of western Normans in Devon, in the 1130s and 40s; it is not unlikely that Baldwin's wife Adeliza was the sister of Juhel son of Nigel and the niece of Judhael of Totnes [Ref: Keats-Rohan DP p286]

On the basis of an endorsement of her only known charter, a grant to Stoke-by-Clare priory for the souls of Earl Baldwin (her husband) and Earl Gilbert, she has been identified as the wife of Gilbert, earl of Hertford, though there is no other evidence that he ever married (Comp. Peer. vi, 499). The endorsement reads: 'Carta de comitissa de Clara'. It is obvious from the beneficiary and from the charter text that Lucy was a countess - the widow of Earl Baldwin - and that she was a member of the de Clare family, a fact noted acceptably and comprehensibly by a scribe of a Clare foundation when he endorsed the charter. Her name strongly suggests as affiliation with Ranulf I of Chester and his wife the Coutness Lucy. She should be identified as a daughter of Richard fitz Gilbert and Adelisa of Chester, daughter of Ranulf and Lucy, and hence sister, NOT wife, of Earl Gilbert of Hertford, who died 1152/3. Lucy's charter was doubtless given shortly after the death of her husband in 1155, two or three years after the death of her brother who was buried at Stoke-by-Clare priory. She must have died soon afterwards as there is no further record of her. [Ref: Keats-Rohan DD p246]

I don't agree with this at all, and in my view Douglas Richardson's subject line above ("C. P. Addition: Lucy, wife of Gilbert de Clare, 1st Earl of Hertford, and Baldwin de Redvers, 1st Earl of Devon"), following Robert Bearman in his edition of the Redvers family charters, is a more plausible reading of the meagre evidence than Dr Keats-Rohan's assertions.
First, it is of little consequence if there is no other evidence, apart from the possible indication of one charter, that Earl Gilbert ever married - we have no more than this for many marriages of his rank and time, and in his case there is no direct evidence or statement that he was never married. The fact that CP reports this as said for lack of evidence to the contrary, while not even mentioning the Stoke priory charter, only suggests that this document was unknown to the writer who ought to have considered it if known.
Secondly, the peripheral conclusions in DD are not supportable: to say that Lucy "must" have died soon after this record because there isn't another is scarcely more logical than to say she "must" have been a girl bride in the early 1150s because there is no other record of her beforehad (and for that matter, since Earl Gilbert's parents were most probably both born before 1100 this obverse pointless speculation would make it less likely that Lucy was his sister). Some countesses of the 12th century didn't leave much of a mark as widows, and she could have survived for years after Baldwin's death for all we know. Also, her name _might_ suggest an affiliation with the more famous Countess Lucy, but not particularly with that lady's third husband Earl Ranulf of Chester - she had offspring by two other men as well as by him. It seems to me that the name Lucy could be misleading, and just a co-incidence as far as we can tell: Earl Baldwin's brother William de Vernon was also married to a woman named Lucy, daughter of William de Tancarville, so that this name alone is hardly compelling evidence for a specific relationship.
Thirdly, the beneficiary and the charter text do not make it "obvious" that Countess Lucy of Devon belonged to the Clare family, as claimed, while the endorsement clearly enough suggests that the scribe at Stoke - who should have known - thought she did not. The gift being to Stoke priory makes it obvious only that Lucy had a connection to this house, but whether by birth or marriage into the founding family cannot be discerned. Earl Gilbert's married sister or remarried widow might equally have made a donation remembering him a few years after his death. The text doesn't help much: it is written in the third person, so is only a paraphrase of Lucy's actual charter, and the relevant passage is as follows: "pro anima comitis Baldewini et comitis Gilberti et omnium antecessorum suorum et pro seipsa et omnibus amicis suis" (for the soul of Earl Baldwin and of Earl Gilbert and of all their predecessors and for herself and all her loved ones) [see _Stoke by Clare Cartulary, BL Cotton Appx. xxi_, edited by Christopher Harper-Bill & Richard Mortimer (1982-84) part 1 p. 49 no. 69]. There is nothing here to imply a different relationship to Gilbert from that to Baldwin, whom we know to have been Lucy's husband.
It would be much less usual, I think, for a woman to refer to her brother in this way than to a former husband. Gilbert's predecessors would have been his sister's blood relatives, and in this event some language to distinguish between them and her in-laws who were Baldwin's predecessors might be expected. We don't know, of course, if the original charter contained more detail, perhaps with more specific possessive pronouns making the meaning plainer.
However, the endorsement in itself could not be plainer: Lucy if a sister of Earl Gilbert would not have used "de Clara" as a surname, either before or after marriage, and no scribe at Stoke would have called a daugher of the family who was not an heiress "countess of Clare" anyway. Several other Stoke priory charters of countesses of Clare with similar endorsments make it perfectly clear that Lucy was supposed to have been the wife of an earl of Clare, presumably Gilbert. Compare, for instance, op. cit. p. 47 no. 65, charter of Countess Amice, wife of Gilbert's nephew Richard de Clare, earl of Hertford, on folio 31r of the cartulary endorsed "Carta comitisse de Clara"; this is identical to the endorsement of Lucy's charter on folio 32r (that by the way correctly reads "Carta comitisse de Clara...", not "de comitissa de Clara" as misquoted in DD). If the scribe oddly thought that a sister of Gilbert could be meaningfully called "comitissa de Clara" he might just as well have called Amice "comitissa de Gloucestria" after her own family's earldom. [Ref: Peter Stewart SGM 4/2/2007-173508]



Pedigree of Adelise
 /-----Nigel
Adelise
|         /-----Alvred Lord Of Barnstaple And Totnes
 \-----(Unk Dau) De TOTNES



Descendants of Adelise
1. Adelise m. Baldwin De REVIERS, Earl Of Devon
m. Baldwin De REVIERS, Earl Of Devon father: Richard De REVIERS, Seigneur Of Reviers, Vernon, mother: Adelise PEVEREL

2nd generation

2. Richard De Redvers, Earl Of Devon m. Denise De CORNWALL
m. Denise De CORNWALL father: Reginald De DUNSTANVILLE, Earl Of Cornwall mother: Mabel
4. William De REVIERS, Earl Of Devon m. Maud De BEAUMONT
m. Maud De BEAUMONT father: Sir Robert De DUNSTANVILLE, Count De Meulan mother: Maud FITZ ROY
5. Hawise De REDVERS m. Robert Castellan Of Gloucester
m. Robert Castellan Of Gloucester father: Robert The Consul De CAEN, Earl Of Gloucester mother: Maud FITZ HAMOND
6. Adelicia De REDVERS m. Roger De NONANT, Baron Of Totnes
m. Roger De NONANT, Baron Of Totnes father: Guy De NONANT, Baron Of Totnes mother: Mabel

3rd generation

9. Mary De VERNON m1. Sir Peter De PROUZ m2. Sir Robert De COURTENAY, Baron Of Oakhampton
m. Sir Peter De PROUZ father: Osbert De PROUZ
m. Sir Robert De COURTENAY, Baron Of Oakhampton father: Reginald De COURTENAY mother: Hawise De COURCY
11. Baldwin De REVIERS m. Margaret FITZGEROLD
m. Margaret FITZGEROLD father: Warin FITZGEROLD, Chamberlain mother: Alice De CURCY
12. Mabel FITZ ROBERT m1. Jordan De CHAMBERNON m2. William De SOLIERS
m. Jordan De CHAMBERNON father: Jordan De CHAMBERNON
m. William De SOLIERS
13. Alice De NONANT m. Robert Fitz Martin, Baron Of Blagdon
m. Robert Fitz Martin, Baron Of Blagdon father: Martin mother: Geva De BURCI

4th generation

16. Sir John De COURTENAY, Baron Of Oakhampton m1. Emma m2. Maud m3. Isabel De VERE
m. Emma
m. Maud
m. Isabel De VERE father: Sir Hugh De VERE, Earl Of Oxford mother: Hawise De QUINCEY
19. Engeline COURTENAY m. Philip IV De COLUMBERS, Baron Of Nether Stowey
m. Philip IV De COLUMBERS, Baron Of Nether Stowey father: Philip III De COLUMBERS, Baron Of Nether Stowey
20. Hawise De COURTENAY m1. Sir John De NEVILLE m2. Sir John De GATESDEN
m. Sir John De NEVILLE father: Hugh De NEVILLE mother: Joan De CORNHILL
m. Sir John De GATESDEN
21. Baldwin De REDVERS, Earl Of Devon m. Amicia De CLARE
m. Amicia De CLARE father: Sir Gilbert De CLARE, Earl Of Hertford And Glouceste mother: Isabel MARSHALL
23. Jordan De CHAMBERNON m. Emma De SOLIGNY
m. Emma De SOLIGNY father: Hasculf De SOLIGNY mother: Iseult De DOL
24. Henry De CHAMBERNON m. Rohese De TRACY
m. Rohese De TRACY father: Sir William De TRACY
30. William Fitz MARTIN, Baron Of Blagdon m. Ankaret Of South Wales
m. Ankaret Of South Wales father: Rhys Ap Griffith, Prince Of South Wales

5th generation

33. Sir Hugh De COURTENAY, Baron Of Oakhampton m. Eleanor Le DESPENSER
m. Eleanor Le DESPENSER father: Sir Hugh Le DESPENSER, Justiciar Of England mother: Aline BASSET
34. (Unk) De COLUMBERS m. Sir John De VALLETORT
m. Sir John De VALLETORT
35. Joan De COLUMBERS m. Gilbert HANSARD
m. Gilbert HANSARD father: John HANSARD mother: Maud De MOWBRAY
37. John De COLUMBERS, Baron Of Nether Stowey m. Alice PENESHERST
m. Alice PENESHERST father: Stephen De PENESHERST mother: Rohese
39. John NEVILLE m. Margaret
m. Margaret mother: (Unk Dau) BELET
40. Joan De NEVILLE m1. Henry De La MARE m2. Sir Walter De La HYDE
m. Henry De La MARE father: Sir William De La MARE mother: Basile
m. Sir Walter De La HYDE
41. Margaret GATESDEN m1. John De CAMOYS, Baron Of Flockthorpe In Hardi m2. Sir William PAYNEL, Lord Paynel
m. John De CAMOYS, Baron Of Flockthorpe In Hardi father: Ralph De CAMOYS, Baron Of Flockthorpe In Hardi
m. Sir William PAYNEL, Lord Paynel father: William PAYNEL mother: Maud HUSEE
44. Isabel De REDVERS m. William De FORZ, Count Of Aumale
m. William De FORZ, Count Of Aumale father: William De FORZ, Count Of Aumale mother: Aveline De Montfichet
45. William De CHAMPERNON m. Eve De WHITCHURCH
m. Eve De WHITCHURCH father: Rainald De WHITCHURCH mother: Alice De BOLNEY
46. Oliver De CHAMBERNON m. Wymarca
m. Wymarca
47. William Fitz MARTIN, Baron Of Blagdon m. Avice De TORITON
m. Avice De TORITON father: (Unk) De BREAUTE