Individual Page

Person Info

• Name: Alice SKIPWITH
• Sex: F


Parents:

• Father:
  
• Sir William De SKIPWITH Death: 1391 in Ormesby, Co Lincoln
Mother:

• Alice De HILTOFT

Family:
Marriage:

• Sir Robert De WILLOUGHBY, Lord Willoughby on Abt 1370 .^m1
  
• Sir Robert De WILLOUGHBY, Lord Willoughby Birth: Abt 1349 Death: 9 Aug 1396

Bibliography

Sources for birth and parent Information

parents:

[Ref: Burke Peerage p1850, CP XII/2 p660(c)],

father:

[Ref: Burke Peerage p51, Clutterbuck Hertford v3p512]

Sources with Information about marriage to Sir Robert De WILLOUGHBY, Lord Willoughby

date:

first marriage of Robert [Ref: Burke Peerage p51, CP VII p475(i), CP VII p477(i), Clutterbuck Hertford v3p512]

in or before 1370 [Ref: CP XII/2 p661],

names:

[Ref: Burke Peerage p1850, CP XII/2 p660(c)]

Robert De WILLOUGHBY & Alice ___ [Ref: CP XII/2 p660],

note:

see footnote regarding the possibility of this marriage [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v5p360(16)]

Sources with Inaccurate marriage information

child:

William WILLOUGHBY (#17618) [Ref: Burke Peerage p51, CP XII/2 p661, Clutterbuck Hertford v3p512, John Ravilious SGM 8/29/2006-171927]

Research Notes:
what evidence does Complete Peerage provide for the first wife, Alice Skipwith? Here is what the author says in [XII/2] footnote c on page 661:
"She [Alice] is said to have been a daughter of Sir William de Skipwith, Chief Baron of the Exchequer, by Alice, daughter and heiress of Sir William de Hiltoft, of Ingoldmells, Lincolnshire. See Nichols, Hist. and Antiq. of co. Leicester, vol. iii, p. 369; Massingberd, Hist. of Ormsby, pp.68-69, 92. The alleged descent of Skipwith from Stuteville is discussed by C.T. Clay in Early Yorkshire Charters, vol. ix, p.138."
I examined the first two sources given by the author of Complete Peerage as evidence for Alice Skipwith's existence and marriage. Both sources state without any documentation that Sir William de Skipwith had a daughter, Alice, who married Robert de Willoughby, 4th Lord Willoughby of Eresby. But did she exist?
These same two sources also indicate that Sir William de Skipwith had a grandson, Thomas Skipwith, who married Margaret Willoughby of the Eresby family. As best I can determine, if Alice Skipwith really was the mother of Sir Robert de Willoughby's son and heir, William, this would make Thomas Skipwith and Margaret Willoughby related in the 2nd and 3rd degrees of kindred, too closely related to obtain a dispensation to marry. If the marriage of Thomas and Margaret took place (as I believe it did), it makes it extremely doubtful that Margaret was the granddaughter of Alice Skipwith. [Ref: Douglas Richardson SGM 6/10/2004-150253]

CP 12(2) (1959) 660-661 (sub Willoughby) alleges without evidence that Robert de Willoughby, 3rd Lord Willoughby, married 1st in or before 1370 a certain Alice, said to have been a daughter of Sir William de Skipwith, by whom he had a son and heir William born about 1372. Recent research indicates that Robert de Willoughby actually married before 1 October 1369 (as his 1st wife) Margery le Zouche, daughter of William la Zouche, Knt, 2nd Lord Zouche of Harringworth. Given the chronology, it is clear that Marjery la Zouche was the mother of Robert de Willoughby's son and heir, William, born about 1372. Further negative evidence of Alice Skipwith's existence is provided by the subsequent marriage between William de Willoughby's granddaughter, Margaret Willoughby, and Thomas Skipwith, a known grandson of Alice de Skipwith's alleged father. If Alice de Skipwith was really the 1st wife of Robert de Willoughby and the mother of his son and heir, William, then Margaret Willoughby and Thomas Skipwith would have been related in the 3rd and 2nd degree of kindred, almost certain too closely related for them to have obtained a dispensation to marry. [Ref: Richardson MCA p886]

the 1623 Visitation of Wiltshire states that Robert de Willoughby married Margery la Zouche. The visitation further indicates that Margery la Zouche was the mother of Robert's son and heir, William, and his second son, Sir Thomas. Alice Skipwith is not mentioned at all.
"Robtus Dns Willoughbie de Eresbie ob: Anno 20: Ri:. 2 = Dau of the Lo Zouch" [Reference: H. St. George, Wiltshire Vis. Peds. 1623 (H.S.P. 105-106) (1954): 216-218 (Willoughbie pedigree)]. [Ref: Douglas Richardson SGM 6/10/2004-150253]

Francis Townsend (1749-1819), Windsor Herald ... left a large collection of material on this incomplete project, now part of the collections of the College of Arms. Some brief notes from it were published by Sir Charles George Young (1795-1869), then York Herald, later Garter, in John Gough Nichols's early journal, Collectanea Topographica et Heraldica. On pp. 154-55 of volume 7 (1841) of that journal, Young published Townsend's comments on Robert de Willoughby and his marriages (the use of first person in the quotation is Townsend's, not Young's):
"This Robert, the father, appears to have had three wives, Alice, Margery, and Elizabeth. I rank Alice first, because I find that upon the death of Robert de Vere, Duke of Ireland, Robert de Willoughby, grandson of this Robert, was found to be next heir through his grandmother Alice, who was sister of Elizabeth, the grandmother of the Duke, and that William the son of Robert and Alice was 28 years old when his father died in 20 Ric. II ..."
Unfortunately, Townsend (or more likely Young) does not give a citation for much of the above, but it appears that Townsend found a document [IPM?] that says that Robert Willoughby was the son of William Willoughby and that William was son of Robert Willoughby of Eresby and wife Alice. The clue that Alice was the sister of Elizabeth, grandmother of Robert de Vere, Duke of Ireland, is, of course, very important. (This Robert de Vere was also 9th Earl of Oxford and led a rather spectacular career--see Complete Peerage, new ed., 10:227-32.) The Duke's paternal grandmother was Elizabeth "the King's kinswoman," daughter of Hugh de Courtenay, 10th Earl of Devon (ibid., 10:225). His paternal grandmother was the wife of Ralph de Ufford, Chief Justice of Ireland (ibid., 10:226)
Note that Robert de Willoughby (husband of Alice, Margery and Elizabeth) was son of John de Willoughby, Lord Willoughby, and his wife, Cecily Ufford. Robert was coheir of William de Ufford, 2nd Earl of Suffolk (ibid., 12, pt. 2:660), Cecily's brother. William de Ufford, 2nd Earl, was a son of the first earl and d.s.p.s. (ibid., 12, pt. 1:432-34; 12, pt. 2:152-53); Ralph de Ufford was brother of Robert de Ufford, 1st Earl of Suffolk (ibid., 10:226). These interconnections (and Townsend's statement) might suggest--but hardly prove--that Alice, first wife of Robert de Willoughby, and [Elizabeth?], wife of Ralph de Ufford, were sisters. [Ref: David Greene SGM 6/29/2004-174011]

Another source that William de Willoughby was son of Alice comes from the inquisition for Maud widow of Thomas de Vere, earl of Oxford made in 1413 [CIPM XIX no. 1045].
"1045 Writ 27 Jan 1413 RUTLAND. Inquisition. Uppingham. 6 March. She held the manor of Market Overton for life with reversion to Richard de Veer, now earl of Oxford. John de Horsham, clerk, granted the manor by charter to William de Wyngefeld, knight, and Joan his wife for the term of their lives with remainder to Thomas de Veer and Maud and the heirs of Thomas. William and Joan died, and Thomas being already dead Maud entered and held until the forfeiture of Robert and from then until she died. The king by letters patent of 21 Dec 1406 [CPR 1405-8, p.314] granted, with the assent of parliament, the reversion of the manor which was in the kings hands on 1 March 1401 to Philippa widow of Robert duke of Ireland and to Richard son and heir of Aubrey earl of Oxford. On 20 May 1407 Philippa released her rights to Richard by indenture and the manor should descend to him. It is held of Edward de Hastynges by knight service, annual value 20 marks. Date of death as above [25 Jan 1413]. Robert de Wylughby, son of William, son of Alice sister of Elizabeth mother of Maud, is her heir, aged 27 years and more."
This aligns with Townsend's statement that Elizabeth was grandmother of Robert de Vere, for this inquisition states she was the mother of Maud d'Ufford wife of Thomas de Vere, and this causes considerable problems and is most likely wrong as Maud's identity appears solid (CP X 226 "Maud da and h. of Sir Ralph de Ufford, Chief Justice of Ireland, br. of Robert (de Ufford), 1st earl of Suffolk, by Maud, widow of William (de Burgh), 3rd earl of Ulster, and da. of Henry, 3rd earl of Lancaster, grandson of Henry III."). Maud was acknowledged in Robert, Earl of Suffolk's will (1368) as his niece " ma trescher niece Doxon" [Testamenta Vetusta, p. 74 ; Topog & Geneal. v. 2 p. 274].
Robert de Willoughby was descended from Cecily d'Ufford and it was probably through this connection that he was heir of Maud d'Ufford, though why his Scales and Ferrars cousins were not included seems odd. Nevertheless it is significant that Robert de Willoughby's grandmother is stated to be Alice, and this cannot be discounted lightly despite the apparent fudging of the jurors' thoughts on his relationship with Maud d'Ufford. [Ref: Rosie Bevan SGM 6/29/2004-235820]



Pedigree of Alice SKIPWITH
 /-----Sir William De SKIPWITH
Alice SKIPWITH
|         /-----Sir William De HILTOFT
 \-----Alice De HILTOFT



Descendants of Alice SKIPWITH