father is often a judgement call, and opinions sometimes differ.

RoyalAnc v1p20 England 3 Maud of England "… She married (2nd) Le Mans, Maine 17 June 1128 Geoffrey Plantagenet …"

The most common date for this marriage appears to be 22 May 1127 (Faris PA2, Moriarty Plantagenet, ES II #81), or 22 May/2 Apr 1127 (ES I.1 #12, ES II #82). Closest match to RoyalAnc is Keats-Rohan (DD p223) has 17 Jun, year not stated.

Geoffrey Plantagenet Count Of Anjou, Duke Of Normandy & Matilda m. 22 May 1127 Le Mans
Sources with Inaccurate Information
date: 17 Jun 1128 [Ref: Richardson PA p1]
date: 17 Jun 1128 [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v1p20]

RoyalAnc v1p28 England 4 Henry II of England (otherwise Henry Fitz Geoffrey, or Henry Fitz Empress), Knt, King of England "… Children of Henry II of England, by Eleanor of Aquitaine: … ii, Henry of England (styled 'the Young King'), … married at Neubourg in Normandy 2 Nov 1160 Margaret (or Marguerite) of France …"

21 Aug 1172 appears in ES II #11 and ES II #83. Several other sources say 1172 or 1173. Earliest dates are those given by Keats-Rohan, Domesday Descendants p944, says betrothed Aug 1158, and p246 adds married as a child. Margaret was born early 1158, so a marriage in 1160 seems too early to be considered valid.

Henry Duke Of Normandy & Margaret Of France m. 21 Aug 1172 Newburgh
Sources with Inaccurate Information
date: 2 Nov 1160 [Ref: Richardson PA p4]
date: 2 Nov 1160 [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v1p28]

RoyalAnc v1p52 England 5 John of England (nicknamed Lackland), King of England "… Illegitimate child of John of England, when a single man, by a mistress Clemence, an unmarried woman"

The identity of the mother of Joan appears only in the Tewkesbury Annals, as "reginae Clemenciae". So who was Queen Clemencia? Clemence le Botiller is one of the five wives of Barons named Clemencia. RoyalAnc v1p52(26) "identity of Clemence is presently unknown." William Addams Reitwiesner in The Genealogist vol 1 pp80-95 identifies her as Agatha de Ferrers.

Joan d/o John Lackland PLANTAGENET, King Of England & Agatha De FERRERS [ES:III-356b, AR:27-27, AR:29A-27] b. Abt 1189 d. 2 Feb 1237 Aber u. Friars Minors, Llanfaes, Anglesey m. Before 23 Mar 1204/5 Llewellyn Fawr The Great AP IORWORTH, Prince Of North Wales
Sources with Inaccurate Information
mother: Clemence [Ref: Richardson PA p11]
mother: Clemence [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v1p52]
mother: Clemence, possibly Clemence le BOTILLER [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v1p52(26)]

Nicholas De VERDUN & Clemence m.
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: of Clemence, by King John, Joan [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v1p52(26)]

RoyalAnc v1p145 Artois 10 Robert II, Count of Artois "… married (3rd) Marguerite (or Margaretha) of Hainault, who died 29 Jul 1319 and was buried in the church of the Cordeliers."

According to ES II #4 and ES III #70 (and a posting to GEN-MEDIEVAL by Leo on 12/31/1998), she died 18 Oct 1342. No correction has been posted to GEN-MEDIEVAL.

Marguarite De Avesnes d/o John II Count Of Hainault, Count Of Holland & Philippa Of Luxembourg [ES:II-4] d. 18 Oct 1342 u. Church of the Cordeliers, Valemciennes m. 3 Oct 1298 Robert II Count Of Artois
Sources with Inaccurate Information
date: 29 Jul 1319 [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v1p145]

RoyalAnc v1p175 Astley 15 Richard ASTLEY, "Esq, of Patshull, Staffordshire, Nailstone and Little Stretton (in King's Norton), Leicestershire, and Haxterley, Warwickshire, … married Joan OTELEY, daughter of Thomas Oteley (or Ottley), Esq, of Pitchford, Shropshire, by Margaret, daughter of John Blount."

Will Johnson, in his page of additions and corrections to Plantagenet Ancestry for Astley, includes a contribution by Brice Clagett, who pointed out that Visitation of Shropshire 1623, HS 29:381, Joan/Jane was daughter of Thomas Oteley by his first wife, Ann Screven, and Thomas's second wife, Jane Blount, was a daughter of Sir Humphrey Blount.

Joan OTELEY d/o Thomas OTELEY & Ann SCREVEN d. After 1531 m. Richard ASTLEY
Sources with Inaccurate Information
parents: Thomas OTELEY & Margaret BLOUNT [Ref: Richardson PA p46]
parents: Thomas OTELEY & Margaret BLOUNT [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v1p175]

Thomas OTELEY & Jane BLOUNT m. 2
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: Joan OTELEY [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v1p175]

Jane BLOUNT d/o Sir Humphrey BLOUNT & m. 2 Thomas OTELEY
Sources with Inaccurate Information
father: John BLOUNT [Ref: Richardson PA p46]
father: John BLOUNT [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v1p175]

RoyalAnc v1p228 Baliol 5 Margaret of Huntingdon, "married in 1209 (as his 2nd wife) Alan Fitz Roland, Lord of Galloway, … His wife, Margaret, died abt 6 Jan 1233. He married (3rd) ___ De LACY …"

Sanders Baronies p119 says she d "ante[before] 1229" leaving two daughters. Stringer ("A new wife for Allan of Galloway") p52, Allan's marriage to a Pontefract Lacy was in or before Mar 1222. Paget (HRHCharles p155) says "abt Epiphany 1233" and ES II #90 says "um 6.I 1233". RoyalAnc seems to follow ES, which is not compatible with Sanders nor Stringer.

Margaret Of Huntingdon d/o David Earl Of Huntingdon & Maud Of Chester [ES:II-90, AR:94-27] b. 1 d. Before Mar 1222 m. 1209 Alan Lord Of Galloway, Constable Of Scotland
Sources with Inaccurate Information
date: abt 6 Jan 1233 [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v1p228]

RoyalAnc v1p236 Bar 8 Waleran de Luxembourg "… married Jeanne de Beauvoir, widow of Gilles de Beaumez, Chatelain of Bapaumes, Mareschal du Cambressis, and daughter and heiress of Jean de Beauvoir, seigneur of Beauvoir".

Jeanne de Beavoir is also shown as daughter of Jean de Beauvoir in ES VI #28 (published in 1978) but shown instead as daughter of Mathieu II Lord of Beauvoir-En-Arrouaise and Mathilde in ES XIII #165 (published in 1990).

Jeanne De Beavoir d/o Mathieu II Lord Of Beauvoir-En-Arrouaise & Mathilde [ES:XIII-165] d. Before Dec 1300 m. Before May 1262 Gilles De Beaumez m2. Before Feb 1278 Walram I Count Of Ligny
Sources with Inaccurate Information
father: Jean of Beavoir [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v1p236]

RoyalAnc v1p389 Blois 2 Adele (or Ala) of England "… She married at Chartres in 1080 ETIENNE HENRI, Count of Blois, Chartres, Chateaudun, Meaux, Provins, Sancere, and Troyes, son of Thibaut II, Count of Blois, Cartres, Chateaudun, Meaux, and Sancerre, by his 2nd wife Gondree (or Gundrada)."

Numerous sources show Gundrada as mother of Stephen Count of Blois (including ES II #64, Moriarty PlantagenetAncestry p117), while AR7 #137 shows Alix de Crepi. Richard Borthwick showed this to be incorrect in an GEN-MEDIEVAL posting of 11/29/1999, citing Michel Bur _La formation du comte de Champagne v.950-v.1150_ (Nancy, 1977), pp198, 475, which is available through Proquest, and available at NYPL JFE 79-1387. Genealogical chart also in Michel Bur's Chartres Comtales pour La Champagne et la Brie, 1988.

Stephen Count Of Blois, Leader Of First Crusade s/o Theobald III Count Of Blois And Champagne & Garsend Of Maine [ES:II-46, AR:137-23] b. 1046 d. Abt 19 May 1102 Ramallah m. m2. 1081 Chartres Adela
Sources with Inaccurate Information
mother: Gundrada [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v1p389]

Theobald III Count Of Blois And Champagne & Gundrada m. 2
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: Stephen Count of Blois [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v1p389]

RoyalAnc v1p394 Blois 6 Theobaldo (or Thibaut) I (nicknamed le Chansonnier or le Grand or le Posthume) "… married (3rd) 22 Sept 1232 Marguerite de Dampierre, daughter of Archambaud VIII de Dampierre, seigneur of Bourbon-l'Archambaud, by Beatrix, daughter of Archambaud V de Saint-Gerard-le-Puy, seigneur of Montducon."

ES III #51 shows Margaret being daughter of Archambaud by his first wife (Guigone de Forez) , not by the second wife (Beatrix de Montducon).

Margaret Of Bourbon d/o Archambaud IX De DAMPIERRE, Seigneur De Bourbon & Guigone Of Forez [ES:III-51] d. 29 Mar 1258 Province, Brie u. Clairvaux Abbey m. 12 Sep 1232 Theobald I King Of Navarre
Sources with Inaccurate Information
mother: Beatrice de Monthucon [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v1p394]

Archambaud IX De DAMPIERRE, Seigneur De Bourbon & Beatrix De MONTHUCON m. Before 1216
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: Margaret , wife of Theobald IV Count of Champagne [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v1p394]

RoyalAnc v1p496 Brabant 3 Stephen of BLOIS, King of England, Duke of Normandy, Count of Mortain "… He married 1125 Maud of Boulogne, Countess of Boulogne and Lens, daughter and heiress of Eustache III, Count of Boulogne, by Mary, daughter of Malcolm III (Caenmor), King of Scots. She was probably born in 1072."

Eustache III and Mary of Scotland were married in 1102 (Weis AR7 #158, ES II #89, Moriarty PlantagenetAncestry p165 and p30, and SP I p2). Maud's birthdate is usually shown in the range of 1103-1105. Birthdate of 1072 is too early.

Matilda Of Boulogne d/o Eustace III Count Of Boulogne & Mary Of Scotland [ES:III-621, AR:158-24] b. Abt 1105 d. 3 May 1151 Hedingham Castle, Kent u. Faversham Abbey, Kent m. 1125 Stephen Of Blois, King Of England
Sources with Inaccurate Information
date: prob 1072 [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v1p496]

RoyalAnc v1p555 Briwerre 4 Grace BRIWERRE "… married (as his 1st wife) Reynold de BREWES (or BREUSE, BRAUSE, BRAOSE), Knt, of Kington, Herefordshire, … He married (2nd) in 1215 Gwladus Ddu of Wales, daughter of Llywelyn ap Iorwerth, Prince of North Wales, by Joan, legitimated daughter of King John of England"

The mother of Gladys DHU is either Joan or Tangwystl, and most sources agree this far. CP++ (Abergavenny) gives both and says no clear contemporary evidence exists. Reitwiesner's article on Joan The Genealogist, vol 1 pp80-95 seems best source. His summary (page 85): WG (Bartrum, Welsh Genealogies) gives Tangwystl, DNB (Distionary of National Biography) says it is unclear, MPW (Roderick, Marriage and Politics in Wales) and Baronage (Paget) give Joan, CP gives Joan, JPW (Walter Lee Sheppard, TAG v35p29-33, et seq) at first gives Joan, but at end of series (particularly TAG v41p122(1965)) gives Tangwystl. I go with Tangwystl.

Gladys DHU d/o Llewellyn Fawr The Great AP IORWORTH, Prince Of North Wales & Tangwystl Of Rhos [AR:27-28] d. 1251 Windsor, Berkshire u. Wigmore Abbey, Herefordshire m. 1215 Reginald De BRAOS, Baron Of Bramber m2. Before 26 Oct 1230 Ralph MORTIMER, Baron Of Wigmore
Sources with Inaccurate Information
mother: Joan [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v1p555]

Llewellyn Fawr The Great AP IORWORTH, Prince Of North Wales & Joan m. Before 23 Mar 1204/5
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: Gladys DHU [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v1p555]

RoyalAnc v2p96 Cantelowe 11 William la ZOUCHE, K.G., 4th Lord Zouche of Harrington "… Children of William la Zouche, K.G., by Elizabeth ___: … i. William ZOUCHE, Knt, … married Elizabeth SAINT JOHN … She married (2nd) John SCROPE K.G. … They had one daughter, Mary (wife of William Conyers, Knt, 1st Lord Conyers)."

Mary SCROPE daughter of John SCROPE by either first wife (Joan FITZ HUGH) or second (Elizabeth St JOHN). CP III p404 says first wife (as does Faris PA2 p97), CP XII/2 p945(h) says second wife (as does Faris PA2 p326). This inconsistency in CP should be resolved, and I'd hate to take wikipedia as the tiebreaker. No discussion on GEN-MEDIEVAL found.

Mary SCROPE d/o John SCROPE, K.G., Lord Scrope & Joan FITZ HUGH m. 1 John CONYERS m2. Abt 24 Sep 1479 William CONYERS, Lord Conyers
Sources with Inaccurate Information
parents: John SCROPE & Elizabeth St JOHN [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p96]

John SCROPE, K.G., Lord Scrope & Elizabeth De ST. JOHN m. Before 10 Dec 1471
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: Mary [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p96]

RoyalAnc v2p104 Carey 15 William CAREY "… He married Mary BOLEYN … They had one son, Henry (or Harry), K.G., [1st Lord Hunsdon], and one daughter, Katherine."

MCA2 v4p63 has lengthy footnote acknowledging Anthony Hoskins article in Genealogist Magazine 1997, but differing interpretation of the facts. RoyalAnc v2p104(6) is identical footnote. There was a Gen-Medieval discussion of the article. Tony's article says Henry VIII "may have been the father", but his theory is far from proved. Faris followed Hoskins, and I'm following him too.

Katherine CARY d/o Henry VIII TUDOR, King Of England & Mary BOLEYN [AR:1-37] b. Abt 1524 d. 15 Jan 1568/9 Hampton Court u. St Edmunds Chapel, Westminster Abbey m. 26 Apr 1540 Sir Francis KNOLLYS, K.G.
Sources with Inaccurate Information
father: William CARY [Ref: Richardson MCA p762]
father: William CARY [Ref: Richardson MCA2 v4p67]
father: William CARY [Ref: Richardson PA p187]
father: William CARY [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p104]

Henry CARY, Lord Hunsdon s/o Henry VIII TUDOR, King Of England & Mary BOLEYN [CP:VI-627] b. 4 Mar 1525/6 d. 23 Jul 1596 Somerset House, Strand u. Chapel of St John Baptist, Westminster Abbey m. Abt 21 May 1545 Anne MORGAN
Sources with Inaccurate Information
father: William CARY [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p104]

William CARY & Mary BOLEYN m. 4 Feb 1519/20
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: Katherine CARY [Ref: Richardson MCA p762]
child: Katherine CARY [Ref: Richardson MCA2 v4p67]
child: Katherine CARY [Ref: Richardson PA p187]
child: Katherine CARY [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p104]
child: Henry [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p104]

RoyalAnc v2p168 Chidiock 16 John ARUNDEL, K.B. "… married (1st) in 1496 [Lady] Elizabeth GREY, daughter of Thomas GREY, K.G., K.B., 1st Marquess of Dorset, … by his 2nd wife Cecily, suo jure Lady Harington and Bonville, daughter of William BONVILLE, Knt, 6th Lord Harington."

Two daughters of Thomas GREY and Cecily BONVILLE. Elizabeth (RoyalAnc v2p168 (m.John ARUNDEL), RoyalAnc v3p164 (m.John ARUNDEL), RoyalAnc v3p161 (m.Gerald FITZGERALD), Faris PA2 p51 (m.Gerald FITZGERALD), PA p63(m.Gerald FITZGERALD), CP VII p234 (m.Gerald FITZGERALD), CP VII p692 (m.Gerald FITZGERALD)) or Eleanor (PA p182 (m.John ARUNDEL), MCA p16 (m.John ARUNDEL), Faris PA2 p160 (m.John ARUNDEL), Faris PA2 p65 (m.John ARUNDEL), Roberts RD600 p178 (m.John ARUNDEL)). My file has Eleanor m. John ARUNDEL, and Elizabeth m. Gerald FITZGERALD.

Eleanor GREY d/o Thomas GREY, K.G., Marquess of Dorset & Cicely BONVILLE, Baroness Harrington And Bonvil d. After 24 Feb 1501/2 m. 1496 Sir John ARUNDELL
Sources with Inaccurate Information
name: Elizabeth [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p168]

RoyalAnc v2p264 Clinton 11 John de CLINTON, Knt, 2rd Lord Clinton "… He married (1st) Idoine de SAY … They had three sons … and two daughters, Margaret and Katherine …"

Weis AR7 #86 states "not a child of Idonea de Say" and put a break in line #86 at that point. It cites TAG 26:22 (Jacobus, Donald Lines, Ancestry of Obadiah and Mary Bruen, 1950, full page description of the problem) and CP III p312etseq (entry for John Clinton, 3rd Lord, of many marriages).

Margaret De CLINTON d/o Sir John CLINTON, Lord Clinton & [AR:86-33] m. Sir Baldwin De MONTFORT
Sources with Inaccurate Information
mother: Idonea De SAY [Ref: Richardson PA p220]
mother: Idonea De SAY [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p264]

Sir John CLINTON, Lord Clinton & Idonea De SAY m. Abt 1350
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: Margaret De CLINTON [Ref: Richardson PA p220]
child: Margaret De CLINTON [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p264]

RoyalAnc v2p289 Conyers 18 William CONYERS, Knt "… He married (1st) by license dated 24 Sept 1479 Mary SCROPE, widow of his brother, John Conyers (living 1472), and daughter of John Scrope, K.G., 5th Lord Scrope of Bolton, by his 2nd wife, Elizabeth, daughter of Oliver Saint John, Knt"

Mary SCROPE daughter of John SCROPE by either first wife (Joan FITZ HUGH) or second (Elizabeth St JOHN). CP III p404 says first wife (as does Faris PA2 p97), CP XII/2 p945(h) says second wife (as does Faris PA2 p326). This inconsistency in CP should be resolved, and I'd hate to take wikipedia as the tiebreaker. No discussion on GEN-MEDIEVAL found.

Mary SCROPE d/o John SCROPE, K.G., Lord Scrope & Joan FITZ HUGH m. 1 John CONYERS m2. Abt 24 Sep 1479 William CONYERS, Lord Conyers
Sources with Inaccurate Information
parents: John SCROPE & Elizabeth ST. JOHN [Ref: Richardson PA p228]
parents: John SCROPE & Elizabeth ST. JOHN [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p289]

John SCROPE, K.G., Lord Scrope & Elizabeth De ST. JOHN m. Before 10 Dec 1471
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: Mary [Ref: Richardson PA p228]
child: Mary [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p289]

RoyalAnc v2p372 Dacre 14 Philippe NEVILLE "… married Thomas DACRE, Knt, … son and heir of William DACRE, Knt, 5th Lord Dacre of Gilsland, by Joan, illegitimate daughter of William de DOUGLAS, Knt, 1st Earl of Douglas"

William Reitwiesner's posting to GEN-MEDIEVAL 7/18/1999: Sir William Douglas was 1st Earl of Douglas. See Cokayne IV:430. He married Margaret by 13 November 1357, when she is mentioned in a charter. This means that their son, Sir James Douglas, who was actually the 2nd Earl of Douglas, could not have been born before 1358. His alleged grandson, Sir Thomas de Dacre, who is now considered to be "6th Lord Dacre of Gilsland", was born 27 October 1387. This would mean that the 2nd Earl of Douglas was a grandfather at age 29 (or younger). In point of fact, even the name of [the wife of William de Dacre] is unknown. She was given the name "Joan Douglas" in a 17th-century memorandum, and her connection to the Earl of Douglas was invented later and is based on nothing more substantive than a guess.

Joan DOUGLAS d/o James DOUGLAS, Earl Of Douglas & m. William De DACRE, Lord Dacre
Sources with Inaccurate Information
father: illeg dau of William DOUGLAS [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p372]

William DOUGLAS, Earl Of Douglas & Margaret STEWART, Countess Of Angus And Mar m. Concubine
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: Joan wife of William DACRE [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p372]

RoyalAnc v2p380 Dammartin 2 Aubrey de DAMMARTIN "Count of Dammartin-en-Goele, of Little Haugh (in Norton), Suffolk, … Aubrey I, Count of Dammartin-en-Goele, died before c.1175"

RoyalAnc v2p380-382 shows three successive generations with given name Aubrey. Keats-Royan DomesdayDescendants p430 mentions one (the first one, Chamberlain to King Louis VI) and points to J.N.Mathieu "Recherches sur les Premiers Comtes de Dammartin", in Paris et Ile-de-France, Memoires v47, 1996 available for purchase online, which only shows two generations with given name Aubrey. RoyalAnc v2p381 cites Mathieu's article, but doesn't follow his reconstruction of the family. All of the information given in RoyalAnc v2p381 for Aubrey I Count of Dammartin should appear under the other two.

Alberic II De DAMMARTIN, Count Of Dammartin s/o Alberic I De DAMMARTIN & (Unk) [ES:III-649] d. 19 Sep 1200 London u. Abbey of Jumieges m. Maud Of Clermont
Sources with Inaccurate Information
br10766 parents: Aubrey (son of Aubrey the Chamberlain) & Maud de ST CLARE [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p382]
br10766 date: say 1130 [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p382]

Alberic I De DAMMARTIN & (Unk) m. 1
Sources with Inaccurate Information
mr4123 child: Aubrey Count of Dammartin (b.c1100 m.Maud ___ d.c1175 father of Aubrey II) [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p381]

Alberic I De DAMMARTIN & Joan BASSETT m. Abt 1160
Sources with Inaccurate Information
mr98154 date: before 1164 [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p381]
mr98154 names: Aubrey (son of Aubrey the Chamberlain) & Joan BASSETT [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p381]

RoyalAnc v2p391 Darcy 14 John de DARCY, Knt, 5th Lord Darcy "… married … Margaret de GREY … Children of John Darcy, Knt, by Margaret Grey: … iii Joan DARCY, married (1st) John BEAUCHAMP, Esq; (2nd) Giles DAUBENEY, Knt, of Barrington and South Petherton, Somerset, South Ingleby, Lincolnshire, etc."

Regarding Joan who married Giles DAUBENEY: wills of both 4th Lord Darcy and his widow Elizabeth are sources that confirm her parentage as daughter of Philip 4th Lord Darcy and Elizabeth Gray. Also confirmed by a pedigree from 'Coll Top & Gen' See Brad Verity's posting to GEN-MEDIEVAL 1/7/2016. Also CP IV p100. Joan (who married John BEAUCHAMP) was either daughter of John DARCY & Margaret GREY, or granddaughter. RoyalAnc v2p391 and RoyalAnc v4p30 both say daughter. RoyalAnc v3p542 say granddaughter (along with Brad Verity SGM 1/7/16, and Roberts RD600 p235). I'm sticking with granddaughter.

Joan DARCY d/o Sir Philip DARCY, Lord Darcy & Elizabeth GRAY b. 3 d. South Petherton u. South Petherton, Somerset m. 1 m2. Before 1424 Sir Giles DAUBENEY, Lord Daubeney
Sources with Inaccurate Information
parents: John DARCY & Margaret GRAY [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p390]
parents: John DARCY & Margaret GRAY [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p391]

(unk-husb) & Joan DARCY m. 1
Sources with Inaccurate Information
names: John BEAUMONT & Joan DARCY [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p391]

Joan DARCY d/o John DARCY & Joan GREYSTOKE m. 1 John BEAUMONT m2. 2
Sources with Inaccurate Information
parents: John DARCY & Margaret GRAY [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p391]
parents: John DARCY & Margaret GRAY [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p390]

Sir John DARCY, Lord Darcy & Margaret De GRAY m. Abt 9 Jul 1397
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: Joan DARCY [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p391]
child: Joan DARCY [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p390]

Sir Giles DAUBENEY, Lord Daubeney & Joan DARCY m. Before 1424
Sources with Inaccurate Information
names: Giles DAUBENEY & Jane DARCY Joan DARCY [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p391]

(unk-husb) & Joan DARCY m. 2
Sources with Inaccurate Information
names: Giles DAUBENEY & Jane DARCY [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p391]

RoyalAnc v2p392 Daubeney 5 Maud de SENLIS "… married (1st) William D'AUBENEY … Children of Maud de Senlis, by William d'Aubeney: … ii. Maud D'AUBENEY, married (as his 1st wife) Gilbert, 3rd Earl of Strathearn … They had seven sons, Gilchrist, William, Fertoth, Robert [Earl of Strathearn], Fergus, Knt, Malise (parson of Gask), and Gilbert, Knt, and three daughters, Maud …, Cecily …, and probably Ethna (or Helen) … Child of Maud d'Aubeney, by Gilbert, Earl of Strathearn: a. Robert, 4th Earl of Strathearn, … (through end of references)"

Maud, who married Gilbert Earl of Strathearn, was daughter of Roger de TOENI and Constance de BEAUMONT, as given in CP V p373 (with correction in XIV p323); (Prior to the correction, CP V p373 said Maud was daughter of William D'Aubigny). CP XII/1 p381 says Gilbert m(1) Maud d/o William d'Aubigny. This is another inconsistency in CP. The correction to CP V p373 should also have been made to CP XII/1 p381.

Margaret De TOSNY d/o Roger IV De TOENI, Baron Of Flamstead & Constance De BEAUMONT d. After 1210 m. 1 Gilbert Earl Of Strathern m2. Malcolm Earl of Fife
Sources with Inaccurate Information
parents: William D'Albini & Maud FitzRobert [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p392]

William II Le Breton D'ALBINI, Lord Of Belvoir & Maud FITZ ROBERT m. 1
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: Maud wife of Malcolm Earl of Fife [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p392]

Gilchrist Of Strathern s/o Gilbert Earl Of Strathern & Margaret De TOSNY [CP:XII/1-381] b. 1 d. 5 Oct 1198 u. Inchaffray Abbey
Sources with Inaccurate Information
parents: Gilbert Earl of Strathearn & Maud d'Albini [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p392]

William Of Strathern s/o Gilbert Earl Of Strathern & Margaret De TOSNY [CP:XII/1-381] b. 2 d. Abt 1210
Sources with Inaccurate Information
parents: Gilbert Earl of Strathearn & Maud d'Albini [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p392]

Ferteth Of Strathern s/o Gilbert Earl Of Strathern & Margaret De TOSNY b. 3 d. Abt 1210
Sources with Inaccurate Information
parents: Gilbert Earl of Strathearn & Maud d'Albini [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p392]

Robert Earl Of Strathern s/o Gilbert Earl Of Strathern & Margaret De TOSNY [CP:XII/1-381] b. 4 d. Before Aug 1244 m. (Unk dau) De MORAVIA
Sources with Inaccurate Information
parents: Gilbert Earl of Strathearn & Maud d'Albini [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p392]

Sir Fergus Of Strathern s/o Gilbert Earl Of Strathern & Margaret De TOSNY b. 5 d. Abt 1247
Sources with Inaccurate Information
parents: Gilbert Earl of Strathearn & Maud d'Albini [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p392]

Sir Malise Of Strathern s/o Gilbert Earl Of Strathern & Margaret De TOSNY b. 6 d. After 1272 m.
Sources with Inaccurate Information
parents: Gilbert Earl of Strathearn & Maud d'Albini [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p392]

Sir Gilbert De GLENCAIRNIE s/o Gilbert Earl Of Strathern & Margaret De TOSNY b. 7 d. After 12 Sep 1232 m.
Sources with Inaccurate Information
parents: Gilbert Earl of Strathearn & Maud d'Albini [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p392]

Maud Of Strathern d/o Gilbert Earl Of Strathern & Margaret De TOSNY m. Malcolm MACDUFF, Earl Of Fife
Sources with Inaccurate Information
parents: Gilbert Earl of Strathearn & Maud d'Albini [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p392]

Cecilia Of Streathearn d/o Gilbert Earl Of Strathern & Margaret De TOSNY m. Sir Walter Of Ruthven
Sources with Inaccurate Information
parents: Gilbert Earl of Strathearn & Maud d'Albini [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p392]

Ethna Of Strathern d/o Gilbert Earl Of Strathern & Margaret De TOSNY m. 1 David De HAYA
Sources with Inaccurate Information
parents: Gilbert Earl of Strathearn & Maud d'Albini [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p392]

(unk-husb) & Maud D'ALBINI m.
Sources with Inaccurate Information
names: Gilbert Earl Of Strathern & Maud d'Albini [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p392]
child: Gilchrist [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p392]
child: William [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p392]
child: Ferteth [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p392]
child: Robert [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p392]
child: Fergus [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p392]
child: Malise [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p392]
child: Gilbert [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p392]
child: Maud [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p392]
child: Cecilia [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p392]
child: Ethna [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p392]

Gilbert Earl Of Strathern & Margaret De TOSNY m. 1
Sources with Inaccurate Information
names: Gilbert Earl of Strathearn & Maud d'Aubeney [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p392]

RoyalAnc v2p398 Dauntsey 11 Edmund STRADLING "… He married before 1446 Elizabeth ARUNDEL, daughter of Renfrey Arundell, Knt, of Treloy and Trefink, Cornwall, by Joan, daughter and heiress of John Coleshull, Knt."

Elizabeth, daughter of Renfrey Arundell and Joan Coleshull, was born abt 1443, and married (1st) William WHITTINGTON and (2nd, 10 Feb 1473/4) Nicholas BROME (see RoyalAnc v3p271). She could not be the same person who married Edmund STRADLING before 1446. RoyalAnc v5p57 says Edward STRADLING married Elizabeth ARUNDELL, daughter of Thomas ARUNDELL and Katherine DINHAM. Edward is apparently not the same as Edmund here.

Elizabeth ARUNDEL d/o m. Before 1446 Edmund STRADLING m2. Before 1465 William LYGON
Sources with Inaccurate Information
parents: Renfrey ARUNDEL & Joan COLESHULL [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p398]

Sir Renfrew ARUNDEL & Joan COLESHULL m.
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: Elizabeth ARUNDEL [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v2p398]

RoyalAnc v3p43 Frome 9 Giles de BREWES, Knt "… Children of Giles de Brewes, Knt, by Maud de Whitney: … ii. Maud de BREWES, married … William de BYKEBURY (or BIKEBERRY), of Bigbury, Devon. They had one son, William, who is the ancestor of Elizabeth Bikebery, wife of John Champernoun, Esq, of Bere Ferrers, Devon [see Modbury 14]."

Says "an ancestor of" without any details given. Cross reference to Modbury 14 is the entry (v4p93) for John Champernoun and Elizabeth Bikebery (which contains a cross reference back to Frome 09), but contains no information linking Elizabeth to William Bykebury. There are at least two missing generations between them.

RoyalAnc v3p59 Gant 1 Gilbert de GANT (or GAUNT) "… 3rd son of Raoul de Gant, …, by Gisele, daughter of Giselbert, Count of Vaudrevange/Wallcrfangen (in Moselgau) [see Appendix, Line E]."

She was sister of Otgva of Luxembourg. On the parentage of Otgva, RoyalAnc differs from every other source I've used: Moriarty PlantagenetAncestry, Brandenburg, Paget HRHCharles, Weis AR7, etc. Since she is not in CP, this would not be announced as a "CP Correction", but she has been discussed at great length on GEN-MEDIEVAL: see Hans Vogel, 3 Aug 2015, and Stewart Baldwin on 5 Aug 2015. The discussion pointed to Stewart Baldwin's Henry page otgiv000, and Stewart Baldwin's article in TAG vol 83 pp116-121 "The Parentage of Otgiva 'of Luxemburg' an Unsolved Tenth- and Eleventh-Century Problem" which discusses both brothers as possible fathers of Otgiva. The "orthodox view" is that Otigva was a daughter of Frederick (died 6 October 1019), count in Moselgau, son of Siegfried. He points to numerous sources: ES VI:128, Hirsch (1862-75), 1:538, n. 8; Vanderkindere (1902), 1:296; Renn (1941), 115-16, 125, 136; Vannerus (1947), 824, 833-34; Parisse (1981), 33. His conclusion "While there seems to be a good case for making Otgive a daughter of Giselbert rather than of Fr?d?ric, the case does not seem strong enough to set aside the "standard scenario" definitively".

Gisele Of Luxembourg d/o Frederick I Count Of Luxemburg & Ermentrude Of Gleiberg [ES:VI-128, AR:143-21] d. 21 May After 1058 u. Chapel Of St Lawrence, Ghent m. Abt 1042 Ralph De GANT, Lord Of Aalst
Sources with Inaccurate Information
father: Giselbert [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v3p59]

Giselbert Count Of Vaudorivang & (unk-wife) m.
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: Gisele [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v3p59]

RoyalAnc v3p101 Grandison 3 Agnes de GRANDISON "married before 1307 (as his 2nd wife) John de NORTHWODE, son and heir apparent of John de NORTHWODE, 1st Lord Northwode, … by Joan, daughter of Guncelin de BADLESMERE."

Shalford, Essex, was given to Ralph de BADLESMERE by the de CLAREs, and appears later in the holdings of the NORTHWODE family. So Ralph seems more likely than Guncelin as her father. This was posted by John Ravilious to GEN-MEDIEVAL on 8/25/2003.

Joan De BADLESMERE d/o Sir Ralph BADLESMERE & d. 2 Jun 1319 m. Abt 1275 John De NORTHWODE, Lord Northwode
Sources with Inaccurate Information
father: Guncelin BADLESMERE [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v3p101]

Guncelin BADLESMERE & (unk-wife) m.
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: Joan [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v3p101]

RoyalAnc v3p151 Groby 8 William de FERRERS, Knt "… Children of Archibald Douglas, by Beatrice de Lindsay: … b. William de DOUGLAS, Knt, … By an unknown mistress he also had two illegitimate daughters, Joan (wife of William Dacre, Knt, 5th Lord Dacre of Gisland) and Margaret …"

William Reitwiesner's posting to GEN-MEDIEVAL 7/18/1999 Sir William Douglas was 1st Earl of Douglas. See Cokayne IV:430. He married Margaret by 13 November 1357, when she is mentioned in a charter. This means that their son, Sir James Douglas, who was actually the 2nd Earl of Douglas, could not have been born before 1358. His alleged grandson, Sir Thomas de Dacre, who is now considered to be "6th Lord Dacre of Gilsland", was born 27 October 1387. This would mean that the 2nd Earl of Douglas was a grandfather at age 29 (or younger). In point of fact, even the name of [the wife of William de Dacre] is unknown. She was given the name "Joan Douglas" in a 17th-century memorandum, and her connection to the Earl of Douglas was invented later and is based on nothing more substantive than a guess.

Joan DOUGLAS d/o James DOUGLAS, Earl Of Douglas & m. William De DACRE, Lord Dacre
Sources with Inaccurate Information
father: illeg dau of William DOUGLAS [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v3p151]

William DOUGLAS, Earl Of Douglas & Margaret STEWART, Countess Of Angus And Mar m. Concubine
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: Joan wife of William DACRE [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v3p151]

RoyalAnc v3p164 Groby 17 Thomas GREY, K.G., Lord Ferrers of Groby "… He married (2nd) by marriage contract dated 18 July 1474 … Cecily BONVILLE, … They had seven sons … and seven daughters … Elizabeth, … Children of Thomas Grey, K.G., K.B., by Cecily Bonville: … vii [Lady] Elizabeth GREY, married John ARUNDELL, K.B. …"

Two daughters of Thomas GREY and Cecily BONVILLE. Elizabeth (RoyalAnc v2p168 (m.John ARUNDEL), RoyalAnc v3p164 (m.John ARUNDEL), RoyalAnc v3p161 (m.Gerald FITZGERALD), Faris PA2 p51 (m.Gerald FITZGERALD), PA p63(m.Gerald FITZGERALD), CP VII p234 (m.Gerald FITZGERALD), CP VII p692 (m.Gerald FITZGERALD)) or Eleanor (PA p182 (m.John ARUNDEL), MCA p16 (m.John ARUNDEL), Faris PA2 p160 (m.John ARUNDEL), Faris PA2 p65 (m.John ARUNDEL), Roberts RD600 p178 (m.John ARUNDEL)). My file has Eleanor m. John ARUNDEL, and Elizabeth m. Gerald FITZGERALD.

Eleanor GREY d/o Thomas GREY, K.G., Marquess of Dorset & Cicely BONVILLE, Baroness Harrington And Bonvil d. After 24 Feb 1501/2 m. 1496 Sir John ARUNDELL
Sources with Inaccurate Information
name: Elizabeth [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v3p164]

RoyalAnc v3p360 Hungerford 12 Robert HUNGERFORD, Knt "… married … Margaret BOTREAUX, suo jure Lady Botreaux, daughter and heiress of William Botreaux, Knt, 3rd Lord Botreaux, by his 1st wife, Elizabeth, daughter of John de Beaumont, K.G., 4th Lord Beaumont, by Katherine de Everingham, alleged daughter of Adam de Everingham, Knt, 2nd Lord Everingham"

CP II p61 says John Beaumont m. Catherine dau and heir of Thomas Everingham, of Laxton, Notts. CP II p262 William Botreaux m. Elizabeth, dau of John Beaumont and Katherine dau of Thomas Everingham. CP XIV adds that she (Elizabeth) was living 20 Jul 1415, and no corrections regarding Katherine or Thomas. Adam Everingham, 2nd Lord Everingham, held Laxton, Notts, like Thomas Everingham, father of Katherine did. How did Laxton get to Thomas??? Adam Lord Everingham had three sons (none named Thomas) and three daughters (none named Katherine), and one son (Reginald) survived his father. Reginald's only son died as a child; was Thomas the heir? Very little seems known, lots needing further research, but nothing supports a correction to CP.

Catherine EVERINGHAM d/o Thomas EVERINGHAM & d. Abt 1 Feb 1426/7 m. John BEAUMONT, K.G., Lord Beaumont
Sources with Inaccurate Information
parents: (alleged to be) Adam de EVERINGHAM Lord Everingham & Joan DEIVILLE [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v3p360]

Adam De EVERINGHAM, Lord Everingham & Joan DEIVILLE m. Before 16 May 1332
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: (alleged to be) Catherine EVERINGHAM wife of John BEAUMONT [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v3p360]

RoyalAnc v3p365 Huntingdon 12 Maud GREY "married before 1379 (as his 2nd wife) Ralph HASTINGS (or HASTYNGS), Knt, … son and heir of Hugh de Hastings, Knt, of Allerston … by Margaret, daughter of William de Herle, Knt."

Father of Sir Ralph HASTINGS was another Sir Ralph HASTINGS, who married Margaret daughter of William HERLE. See, e.g., History of Northumberland, by John Hodgson, part 2 vol 1 p240.

Sir Ralph De HASTINGS s/o Sir Nicholas De HASTINGS & Agnes d. Abt 1362 m. Margaret De HERLE
Sources with Inaccurate Information
name: Hugh [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v3p365]

RoyalAnc v3p465 Lacy 2 Roger of Chester "… Children of Roger de Lacy, Knt, by Maud ___: … iii. ___ de LACY married say 1200/5 (as his 1st wife) Alan FITZ ROLAND, Lord of Galloway, … He married (2nd) in 1209 Margart of HUNTINGDON … His wife, Margaret, died about 6 Jan 1233. He married (3rd) ___ De LACY …"

Sanders Baronies p119 says she [Margaret of HUNTINGDON] d "ante 1229" leaving two daughters. Stringer ("A new wife for Allan of Galloway") p52, Allan's marriage to a Pontefract Lacy was in or before Mar 1222. Paget (HRHCharles p155) says "abt Epiphany 1233" and ES II #90 says "um 6.I 1233". RoyalAnc seems to follow ES, which is not compatible with Sanders nor Stringer.

Margaret Of Huntingdon d/o David Earl Of Huntingdon & Maud Of Chester [ES:II-90, AR:94-27] b. 1 d. Before Mar 1222 m. 1209 Alan Lord Of Galloway, Constable Of Scotland
Sources with Inaccurate Information
date: abt 6 Jan 1233 [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v3p465]

RoyalAnc v3p517 Lancaster 12 Henry V of England "… Children of Katherine of France, by Owen Tudor, Esq: … ii. Jasper TUDOR … He married Katherine WYDEVILLE, … Katherine married (3rd) Richard WINGFIELD, K.G., … Richard married (2nd) Bridget WILTSHIRE … Bridget married (3rd) Robert TYRWHIT … Robert married (2nd) Elizabeth OXENBRIDGE, Lady of the Privy Chamber to Queen Jane Seymour and daughter of Goddard Oxenbridge, Knt, of Brede, Sussex. … His wife, Elizabeth, died in 1578."

Elizabeth OXENBRIDGE either daughter of Goddard OXENBRIDGE, or granddaughter. RoyalAnc v3p517 and RoyalAnc v5p21 says daughter. RoyalAnc v2p280, RoyalAnc v2p486 and RoyalAnc v5p227 says granddaughter, along with PA p283, Faris PA2 p128, Faris PA2 p364, Faris PA2 p327, CP IX p390. RoyalAnc v5p227 says she was age 11 in 1540, which means she was in the IPM of Thomas, son of Goddard.

Elizabeth OXENBRIDGE d/o Sir Thomas OXENBRIDGE & Elizabeth PUTTENHAM b. Abt 1529 d. 1589 u. 25 Jan 1589/90 Bigby, Lincolnshire m. Before 4 Aug 1539 Sir Robert TYRWHITT
Sources with Inaccurate Information
father: Goddard OXENBRIDGE [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v3p517]
date: 1578 [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v3p517]

Sir Goddard OXENBRIDGE & Anne FIENNES m. 2
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: Elizabeth [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v3p517]

RoyalAnc v3p517 Lancaster 12 Henry V of England "… Children of Katherine of France, by Owen Tudor, Esq: … ii. Jasper TUDOR … He married Katherine WYDEVILLE, … Katherine married (3rd) Richard WINGFIELD, K.G., … Richard married (2nd) Bridget WILTSHIRE … Bridget married (3rd) Robert TYRWHIT … son of Robert TYRWHIT, of Kettleby, Lincolnshire, by Maud, daughter of Robert TAILBOYS, Knt … Sir Robert TYRWHIT was buried at Leighton Broomswold, Huntingdonshire in June 1572."

Robert TYRWHITT either son or grandson of Robert TYRWHIT & Maud TAILBOYS. RoyalAnc v5p226-7 says both. He died 13 Nov 1581 (RoyalAnc v5p227, Faris PA2 p365), or Jun 1572 (RoyalAnc v3p517, RoyalAnc v5p21, CP III p309(c)).

Sir Robert TYRWHITT s/o Sir Robert TYRWHIT & Maud TAILBOYS b. Before 1504 d. 13 Nov 1581 u. Bigby, Lincolnshire m. After 1532 Bridget WILTSHIRE m2. Before 4 Aug 1539 Elizabeth OXENBRIDGE
Sources with Inaccurate Information
place: Leighton Bromswold, Huntingdonshire [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v3p517]
date: Jun 1572 [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v3p517]

RoyalAnc v4p30 Markham 10 Giles DAUBENEY, Knt "… He married (1st) before 1424 Joan DARCY, widow of John BEAUCHAMP, Esq, and daughter of John DARCY, Knt, 5th Lord Darcy of Knaith, 4th Lord Meinell, by Margaret, daughter of Henry GREY, Knt, 5th Lord Grey of Wilton."

Giles DAUBENEY is on CP IV p100-1, and gives the parents of Joan DARCY as Philip DARCY, 4th Lord Darcy, by Elizabeth, daughter of Thomas GREY. Wills of both 4th Lord Darcy and his widow Elizabeth are sources that confirm her parentage (daughter of Philip 4th Lord Darcy and Elizabeth Gray). Also a pedigree from 'Coll Top & Gen'. This is confirmed by Brad Verity in a GEN-MEDIEVAL posting on 1/7/2016. Brad also points out that the Joan DARCY who married John BEAUCHAMP (who was killed at the Battle of Towton (29 Mar 1461) could not have married (2nd) Giles DAUBENEY before 1424. That Joan was either the daughter or granddaughter of John DARCY & Margaret GREY. RoyalAnc v2p391 and RoyalAnc v4p30 both say daughter. RoyalAnc v3p542 say granddaughter (along with Brad Verity SGM 1/7/16, and Roberts RD600 p235).

Joan DARCY d/o Sir Philip DARCY, Lord Darcy & Elizabeth GRAY b. 3 d. South Petherton u. South Petherton, Somerset m. 1 m2. Before 1424 Sir Giles DAUBENEY, Lord Daubeney
Sources with Inaccurate Information
parents: John DARCY & Margaret GRAY [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v4p30]

(unk-husb) & Joan DARCY m. 1
Sources with Inaccurate Information
names: John BEAUMONT & Joan DARCY [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v4p30]

Sir John DARCY, Lord Darcy & Margaret De GRAY m. Abt 9 Jul 1397
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: Joan DARCY [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v4p30]

Joan DARCY d/o John DARCY & Joan GREYSTOKE m. 1 John BEAUMONT m2. 2
Sources with Inaccurate Information
parents: John DARCY & Margaret GRAY [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v4p30]

Sir John DARCY, Lord Darcy & Margaret De GRAY m. Abt 9 Jul 1397
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: Joan DARCY [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v4p30]

RoyalAnc v4p72 Mayenne 4 Constance of BRITTANY "… married Geoffroi [II] De MAYENNE … They had one son, Hamon …, and two daughters, Maud and Clemence."

Keats-Rohan Domesday Descendants p577 has entry for Gaufrid de Meduana. Mentions wife Isabel de Meulan, daughters Clemence wife of Robert III de Sable, and Mathilde wife of Andre II de Vitre. ES XIII #133 agrees with this. Richardson posted to GEN-MEDIEVAL on 2/13/2012 a chronology problem, and proposed solving it by changing the mother of Clemence to be Gaufrid's first wife instead of second. Peter Stewart pushed back, accusing him of using errant secondary sources. In all the loud arguments, I don't think anything was resolved.
Issue is Isabel de Meulan. By Maurice II Sire de Craon, she was mother of Amaury Sire de Craon; by Geoffrey Sire de Mayenne she was mother of Clemence mother of Marguerite mother of Jeanne, who married Amaury Sire de Craon. Impossible? Unlikely? Depends on dates, and there are no solid dates on either line, just estimates.

Clemence Of Mayenne d/o Geoffroy Sire De Mayenne & Isabella De BEAUMONT [ES:XIII-133] d. Abt 1189 m. After 1168 Robert Sire Of Sable
Sources with Inaccurate Information
mother: Constance of Brittany [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v4p72]

Matilda De Mayenne d/o Geoffroy Sire De Mayenne & Isabella De BEAUMONT m. 1 Andre II Lord Of Vitre m2. 2 Theobald De MATEFELON
Sources with Inaccurate Information
mother: Constance of Brittany [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v4p72]

Geoffroy Sire De Mayenne & Constance Of Brittany m. Abt 1135
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: Clemence and Maud [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v4p72]

RoyalAnc v4p73 Mayenne 4 Constance of BRITTANY "… Children of Constance of Brittany, by Geoffroi de Mayenne, Chev: i. Clemence de MAYENNE [see next]. … Mayenne 5 Clemence de MAYENNE daughter by her father's 1st marriage."

Keats-Rohan Domesday Descendants p577 has entry for Gaufrid de Meduana. Mentions wife Isabel de Meulan, daughters Clemence wife of Robert III de Sable, and Mathilde wife of Andre II de Vitre. ES XIII #133 agrees with this. Richardson posted to GEN-MEDIEVAL on 2/13/2012 a chronology problem, and proposed solving it by changing the mother of Clemence to be Gaufrid's first wife instead of second. Peter Stewart pushed back, accusing him of using errant secondary sources. In all the loud arguments, I don't think anything was resolved. Issue is Isabel de Meulan. By Maurice II Sire de Craon, she was mother of Amaury Sire de Craon; by Geoffrey Sire de Mayenne she was mother of Clemence mother of Marguerite mother of Jeanne, who married Amaury Sire de Craon. Impossible? Unlikely? Depends on dates, and there are no solid dates on either line, just estimates.

Clemence Of Mayenne d/o Geoffroy Sire De Mayenne & Isabella De BEAUMONT [ES:XIII-133] d. Abt 1189 m. After 1168 Robert Sire Of Sable
Sources with Inaccurate Information
mother: Constance of Brittany [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v4p73]

Geoffroy Sire De Mayenne & Constance Of Brittany m. Abt 1135
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: Clemence [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v4p73]

RoyalAnc v4p80 Melton 11 John MELTON, Knt "… Children of John Melton, Knt, by Margaret Clifford: i. John MELTON, Knt, married Eleanor SAINT JOHN [see Codnor 16]."

John MELTON, 7th Lord Lucy, is on CP VIII p255. His son, another John MELTON, 8th Lord Lucy, married Elizabeth HILTON. Their son, another John MELTON, heir apparent, married Margery FITZHUGH. Their son, another John MELTON, 9th Lord Lucy, whose wife is unknown, died 1510, and appears in RoyalAnc as son of Melton 11 [directed to Codnor 16]. Three generations of John MELTON's are skipped in RoyalAnc.

Sir John MELTON, Lord Lucy s/o Sir John MELTON & Margery FITZ HUGH [CP:VIII-255] b. 2 Feb 1454/5 Aston d. 11 Jun 1510 m. After 1501 Elizabeth St JOHN
Sources with Inaccurate Information
parents: Sir John MELTON & Margaret CLIFFORD [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v4p80]

Sir John De MELTON, Lord Lucy & Margaret CLIFFORD m. Before 1415
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: John [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v4p80]

RoyalAnc v4p97 Moels 14 William BOTREAUX, Knt "… He married (1st) before 14 Nov 1411 (date of his grandmother's will) Elizabeth BEAUMONT, daughter of John de BEAUMONT, K.G., 4th Lord Beaumont, by Katherine), daughter of Adam de EVERINGHAM, Knt, 2nd Lord Everingham."

CP II p61 says John Beaumont m. Catherine dau and heir of Thomas Everingham, of Laxton, Notts. CP II p262 William Botreaux m. Elizabeth, dau of John Beaumont and Katherine dau of Thomas Everingham. CP XIV adds that she (Elizabeth) was living 20 Jul 1415, and no corrections regarding Katherine or Thomas. Adam Everingham, 2nd Lord Everingham, held Laxton, Notts, like Thomas Everingham, father of Katherine did. How did Laxton get to Thomas??? Adam Lord Everingham had three sons (none named Thomas) and three daughters (none named Katherine), and one son (Reginald) survived his father. Reginald's only son died as a child; was Thomas the heir? Very little seems known, lots needing further research, but nothing supports a correction to CP.

Catherine EVERINGHAM d/o Thomas EVERINGHAM & d. Abt 1 Feb 1426/7 m. John BEAUMONT, K.G., Lord Beaumont
Sources with Inaccurate Information
parents: (alleged to be) Adam de EVERINGHAM Lord Everingham & Joan DEIVILLE [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v4p97]

Adam De EVERINGHAM, Lord Everingham & Joan DEIVILLE m. Before 16 May 1332
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: (alleged to be) Catherine EVERINGHAM wife of John BEAUMONT [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v4p97]

RoyalAnc v4p141 Montfort 10 Baldwin de MONTFORT, Knt "…married Margaret de CLINTON, daughter of John de CLINTON, Knt, 3rd Lord Clinton, by Idoine, daughter of Geoffrey de Say, Knt, 2nd Lord Say [see Clinton 11 for her ancestry]."

Weis AR7 #86 states "not a child of Idonea de Say" and put a break in line #86 at that point. It cites TAG 26:22 (Jacobus, Donald Lines, Ancestry of Obadiah and Mary Bruen, 1950, full page description of the problem) and CP III p312etseq (entry for John Clinton, 3rd Lord, of many marriages).

Margaret De CLINTON d/o Sir John CLINTON, Lord Clinton & [AR:86-33] m. Sir Baldwin De MONTFORT
Sources with Inaccurate Information
mother: Idonea de SAY [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v4p141]

Sir John CLINTON, Lord Clinton & Idonea De SAY m. Abt 1350
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: Margaret de CLINTON [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v4p141]

RoyalAnc v4p164 Mortimer 7 Gwladus DDU of WALES shown as daughter of Joan of England married Llywellyn Ap IORWERTH, Prince of North Wales.

mother of Gladys DHU is either Joan or Tangwystl, and most sources agree this far. CP++ (Abergavenny) gives both and says no clear contemporary evidence exists. Reitwiesner's article on Joan (The Genealogist, vol 1 no 1, 1981, pp80-95) seems best source. His summary (page 85): WG (Bartrum, Welsh Genealogies) gives Tangwystl, DNB (Distionary of National Biography) says it is unclear, MPW (Roderick, Marriage and Politics in Wales) and Baronage (Paget) give Joan, CP gives Joan, JPW (Walter Lee Sheppard, TAG v35p29-33, et seq) at first gives Joan, but at end of series (particularly TAG v41p122(1965)) gives Tangwystl. I go with Tangwystl.

Gladys DHU d/o Llewellyn Fawr The Great AP IORWORTH, Prince Of North Wales & Tangwystl Of Rhos [AR:27-28] d. 1251 Windsor, Berkshire u. Wigmore Abbey, Herefordshire m. 1215 Reginald De BRAOS, Baron Of Bramber m2. Before 26 Oct 1230 Ralph MORTIMER, Baron Of Wigmore
Sources with Inaccurate Information
mother: Joan [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v4p164]

Llewellyn Fawr The Great AP IORWORTH, Prince Of North Wales & Joan m. Before 23 Mar 1204/5
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: Gladys DHU [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v4p164]

RoyalAnc v4p202 Navarre 12 Philippe III, King of Navarre "… married 18 June 1318 (by treaty signed 27 March 1318) Jeanne of FRANCE, Queen of Navarre, …"

The marriage date is given by Neil Thompson, _Ancestry of Charles II_ The Genealogist v18p127 as 9 October 1325. Footnote 247 on v18p127 gives the contract date 27 Mar 1318 and dispensation date 5 May 1318.

Philip III King Of Navarre, Count Of Evereux & Joan Of France, Queen Of Navarre m. 9 Oct 1325 Chateau De Conflans
Sources with Inaccurate Information
date: 18 Jun 1318 (by treaty signed 27 Mar 1318) [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v4p202]

RoyalAnc v4p416 Powick 11 John BEAUCHAMP "… Children of John de Beauchamp, Knt, by Joan de Cherleton: … ii. Walter BEAUCHAMP … married Elizabeth ROCHES … Children of Walter Beauchamp, Knt, by Elizabeth Roches: a. William BEAUCHAMP, Knt … married Elizabeth BRAYBROOKE … Child of William Beauchamp, Knt, by Elizabeth Braybrooke: 1) Richard Beauchamp … He married Ane WROTTESLEY, daughter of Walter Wrottesley, Knt."

CP XI p303 says Anne, widow of Richard Beauchamp, married John Hussey, but gives no parentage for Anne. RoyalAnc v4p416 confirms this part, but calls her Anne d/o Walter Wrottesley. RoyalAnc v4p510 (entry for Margaret St John, wife of Francis Russel, who m2 Bridget Hussey, Bridget Hussey was d/o John Hussey and Anne) Anne wife of John Hussey was d/o George GREY. RoyalAnc v4p416 (entry for William Beauchamp and his children) says Anne, wife of Richard Beauchamp, was d/o Sir Walter WROTTESLEY. These two entries suggest they are different women both named Anne. CP is only source that says widow of Richard Beauchamp married John Hussey (are there others that say this too??). Side note -- Walter WROTTESLEY (#23477) had a daughter Anne (Burke Peerage p2179 and Madan. _The Gresleys or Drakelow_, 1899, p299) who married Anthony St Amand. Same??? Other GEN-MEDIEVAL postings that mention Beauchamp/Hussey: Bridget Hussey d/o Anne Grey, citing BxP 252 and 294; Anne Grey m. John Hussey (lots), citing Leo's Genealogics (Leo has only a single marriage of Anne). No postings that mention both attached to same wife.

Anne GREY d/o George GREY, Lord Grey, Earl Of Kent & Catherine HERBERT d. 2 Mar 1511 m. 1 Richard BEAUCHAMP, Lord St Amand m2. 4 Jun 1509 Sir John HUSSEY, Lord Hussey
Sources with Inaccurate Information
father: Sir Walter WORTESLEY [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v4p416]

Sir Walter WROTTESLEY & Jane BARON m. 1
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: Anne wife of John HUSSEY [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v4p416]

RoyalAnc v4p441 Quincy 6 Saher (or Saier) de QUINCY, Knt "… Children of Saher de Quincy, Knt, by Margaret of Leicester: i. Robert de QUINCY … died at London in 1217, …"

Two places in CP, XII/2 p751 and VII p676, said he died in London. One of those, VII p676, was removed by the corrections in volume XIV, but the other was left unchanged. Burial place has conflicting information in CP, XII/2 p751(d) says Brackley, and VII p680 says Clerkenwell.

Robert De QUINCEY s/o Saire De QUINCEY, Earl Of Winchester, MC Suret & Margaret BEAUMONT [CP:XII/2-751, ES:III-708, AR:54-28] b. 1 d. 1217 u. Brackley m. Abt 1197 Hawise Of Chester, Countess Of Lincoln
Sources with Inaccurate Information
place: London [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v4p441]
place: church of the Hospitallers at Clerkenwell [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v4p441]

RoyalAnc v4p531 Saint John 15 Margaret BEAUCHAMP "… Children of Margaret Beauchamp, by Oliver Saint John, Knt: … v. Elizabeth SAINT JOHN … married (2nd) before 10 Dec 1471 (as his 2nd wife) John SCROPE, K.G., 5th Lord Scrope of Bolton, … They had one daughter, Mary."

Mary SCROPE daughter of John SCROPE by either first wife (Joan FITZ HUGH) or second (Elizabeth St JOHN). CP III p404 says first wife (as does Faris PA2 p97), CP XII/2 p945(h) says second wife (as does Faris PA2 p326). This inconsistency in CP should be resolved, and I'd hate to take wikipedia as the tiebreaker. No discussion on GEN-MEDIEVAL found.

Mary SCROPE d/o John SCROPE, K.G., Lord Scrope & Joan FITZ HUGH m. 1 John CONYERS m2. Abt 24 Sep 1479 William CONYERS, Lord Conyers
Sources with Inaccurate Information
parents: John SCROPE & Elizabeth St JOHN [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v4p531]

John SCROPE, K.G., Lord Scrope & Elizabeth De ST. JOHN m. Before 10 Dec 1471
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: Mary [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v4p531]

RoyalAnc v4p567 Say 8 William de SAY, Knt "… Children of William de Say, Knt, by Elizabeth ___: … ii. Mary de Say, probable daughter. She married before 1290 … John de NORTHWODE, son and heir apparent of John de Northwode, 1st Lord Northwode, of Northwood (in Sheppey), Harrietsham, Shorne, Thornham, etc, Kent, by Joan, daughter of Guncelin de Badlesmere."

Shalford, Essex, was given to Ralph de BADLESMERE by the de CLAREs, and appears later in the holdings of the NORTHWODE family. So Ralph seems more likely than Guncelin as her father. This was posted by John Ravilious as "CP Correction?" on 8/25/2003.

Joan De BADLESMERE d/o Sir Ralph BADLESMERE & d. 2 Jun 1319 m. Abt 1275 John De NORTHWODE, Lord Northwode
Sources with Inaccurate Information
father: Guncelin BADLESMERE [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v4p567]

Guncelin BADLESMERE & (unk-wife) m.
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: Joan [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v4p567]

RoyalAnc v5p21 Stafford 12 Henry (or Harry) STAFFORD, K.G., K.B., 2nd Duke of Buckingham "… He married Katherine WYDEVILLE, … Katherine married (3rd) Richard WINGFIELD, … Richard married (2nd) Bridget WILTSHIRE, … Bridget married (3rd) Robert TYRWHIT (or WYRWHITT, TIRWHITE), Knt, … Robert married (2nd) after April 1558 and before 4 August 1539 Elizabeth OXENBRIDGE, Lady of the Privy Chamber to Queen Jane Seymour, and daughter of Goddard Oxenbridge, Knt, of Brede, Sussex. … His wife, Elizabeth, died in 1578."

Elizabeth OXENBRIDGE either daughter of Goddard OXENBRIDGE, or granddaughter. RoyalAnc v3p517 and RoyalAnc v5p21 says daughter. RoyalAnc v2p280, RoyalAnc v2p486 and RoyalAnc v5p227 says granddaughter, along with PA p283, Faris PA2 p128, Faris PA2 p364, Faris PA2 p327, CP IX p390. RoyalAnc v5p227 says she was age 11 in 1540, which means she was in the IPM of Thomas, son of Goddard. Her death date of 1589 appears in Faris Plantagenet Ancestry 2nd edition p365, and in Charlotte Carpenter Smith's book _Echyngham Medieval Family_ published in 2011 and available on web, p46. RoyalAnc v5p227 also says she was buried 25 Jan 1589/90.

Elizabeth OXENBRIDGE d/o Sir Thomas OXENBRIDGE & Elizabeth PUTTENHAM b. Abt 1529 d. 1589 u. 25 Jan 1589/90 Bigby, Lincolnshire m. Before 4 Aug 1539 Sir Robert TYRWHITT
Sources with Inaccurate Information
father: Goddard OXENBRIDGE [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v5p21]
date: 1578 [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v5p21]

Sir Goddard OXENBRIDGE & Anne FIENNES m. 2
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: Elizabeth [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v5p21]

RoyalAnc v5p21 Stafford 12 Henry (or Harry) STAFFORD, K.G., K.B., 2nd Duke of Buckingham "… He married Katherine WYDEVILLE, … Katherine married (3rd) Richard WINGFIELD, … Richard married (2nd) Bridget WILTSHIRE, … Bridget married (3rd) Robert TYRWHIT (or WYRWHITT, TIRWHITE), Knt, …2nd son of Robert TYRWHIT, of Kettleby, Lincolnshire, by Maud, daughter of Robert TAILBOYS, Knt."

Robert TYRWHITT either son or grandson of Robert TYRWHIT & Maud TAILBOYS. RoyalAnc TYRWHIT 18.ii & TYRWHIT 20 (v5p226-7) says both. He died 13 Nov 1581 (RoyalAnc v5p227, Faris PA2 p365), or Jun 1572 (RoyalAnc v3p517, RoyalAnc v5p21, CP III p309(c)).

Sir Robert TYRWHITT s/o Sir Robert TYRWHIT & Maud TAILBOYS b. Before 1504 d. 13 Nov 1581 u. Bigby, Lincolnshire m. After 1532 Bridget WILTSHIRE m2. Before 4 Aug 1539 Elizabeth OXENBRIDGE
Sources with Inaccurate Information
date: Jun 1572 [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v5p21]
date: June 1572 [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v5p21]
place: Leighton Bromswold, Huntingdonshire [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v5p21]

RoyalAnc v5p226 TYRWHIT 18 Robert TYRWHIT, Knt "… Children of Robert Tyrwhit, Knt, by Maud Tailboys: … ii. Robert TYRWHIT, Knt, of Leighton Bromswold, Huntingdonshire, married (1st) Bridget WILTSHIRE; (2nd) Elizabeth OXENBRIDGE."

Robert TYRWHITT either son or grandson of Robert TYRWHIT & Maud TAILBOYS. RoyalAnc TYRWHIT 18.ii & TYRWHIT 20 (v5p226-7) says both. He died 13 Nov 1581 (RoyalAnc v5p227, Faris PA2 p365), or Jun 1572 (RoyalAnc v3p517, RoyalAnc v5p21, CP III p309(c)).

Sir Robert TYRWHITT s/o Sir Robert TYRWHIT & Maud TAILBOYS b. Before 1504 d. 13 Nov 1581 u. Bigby, Lincolnshire m. After 1532 Bridget WILTSHIRE m2. Before 4 Aug 1539 Elizabeth OXENBRIDGE
Sources with Inaccurate Information
parents: William TYRWHITT & Isabel GIRLINGTON [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v5p226]

Sir William TYRWHITT & Isabel GIRLINGTON m. After 1523
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: Robert TYRWHITT [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v5p226]

RoyalAnc v5p298 Wales 6 Joan of England "… married Llywelyn Ap IORWERTH, … They had one son, Dafydd, and several daughters, including Gwladus Dhu, Ellen, …"

mother of Gladys DHU is either Joan or Tangwystl, and most sources agree this far. CP++ (Abergavenny) gives both and says no clear contemporary evidence exists. Reitwiesner's article on Joan (The Genealogist, vol 1 no 1, 1981, pp80-95) seems best source. His summary (page 85): WG (Bartrum, Welsh Genealogies) gives Tangwystl, DNB (Distionary of National Biography) says it is unclear, MPW (Roderick, Marriage and Politics in Wales) and Baronage (Paget) give Joan, CP gives Joan, JPW (Walter Lee Sheppard, TAG v35p29-33, et seq) at first gives Joan, but at end of series (particularly TAG v41p122(1965)) gives Tangwystl. I go with Tangwystl.

Gladys DHU d/o Llewellyn Fawr The Great AP IORWORTH, Prince Of North Wales & Tangwystl Of Rhos [AR:27-28] d. 1251 Windsor, Berkshire u. Wigmore Abbey, Herefordshire m. 1215 Reginald De BRAOS, Baron Of Bramber m2. Before 26 Oct 1230 Ralph MORTIMER, Baron Of Wigmore
Sources with Inaccurate Information
mother: Joan [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v5p298]

Llewellyn Fawr The Great AP IORWORTH, Prince Of North Wales & Joan m. Before 23 Mar 1204/5
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: Gladys DHU [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v5p298]

RoyalAnc v5p298 Wales last line of header, John, King of England, by a mistress, Clemence ___

From the Tewkesbury Annals, "reginae Clemenciae". So who was Queen Clemencia? Clemence le Botiller is one of the five wives of Barons named Clemencia. RoyalAnc v1p52(26) "identity of Clemence is presently unknown."

Joan d/o John Lackland PLANTAGENET, King Of England & Agatha De FERRERS [ES:III-356b, AR:27-27, AR:29A-27] b. Abt 1189 d. 2 Feb 1237 Aber u. Friars Minors, Llanfaes, Anglesey m. Before 23 Mar 1204/5 Llewellyn Fawr The Great AP IORWORTH, Prince Of North Wales
Sources with Inaccurate Information
mother: Clemence [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v5p298]

RoyalAnc v5p354 West 15 Thomas WEST, Knt, 2nd Lord La Warr (or De la WARR) "… He married 19 Nov 1571 Anne KNOLLES (or KNOLLYS, KNOWLES), daughter of Francis KNOLLES, K.G., of Rotherfield, … by Katherine, daughter of William CAREY, Esq"

MCA2 v4p63 has lengthy footnote acknowledging Anthony Hoskins article in Genealogist Magazine 1997, but differing interpretation of the facts. RoyalAnc v2p104(6) is identical footnote. There was a Gen-Medieval discussion of the article. Tony's article says Henry VIII "may have been the father", but his theory is far from proved. Faris followed Hoskins, and I'm following him too.

Katherine CARY d/o Henry VIII TUDOR, King Of England & Mary BOLEYN [AR:1-37] b. Abt 1524 d. 15 Jan 1568/9 Hampton Court u. St Edmunds Chapel, Westminster Abbey m. 26 Apr 1540 Sir Francis KNOLLYS, K.G.
Sources with Inaccurate Information
father: William CARY [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v5p354]

William CARY & Mary BOLEYN m. 4 Feb 1519/20
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: Katherine CARY [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v5p354]

RoyalAnc v5p496 Line B 9 Baudouin IV, the Bearded "… married Otgive (or Ogive), daughter of Giselbert, Count of Vaudrevange/Wallerfangen (in Moselgau) [see Line E, Gen 8 below for her parentage]."

On the parentage of Otgva, RoyalAnc differs from every other source I've used: Moriarty PlantagenetAncestry, Brandenburg, Paget HRHCharles, Weis AR7, etc. Since she is not in CP, this would not be announced as a "CP Correction", but she has been discussed at great length on GEN-MEDIEVAL: see Hans Vogel, 3 Aug 2015, and Stewart Baldwin on 5 Aug 2015. The discussion pointed to Stewart Baldwin's Henry page otgiv000, and Stewart Baldwin's article in TAG vol 83 pp116-121 "The Parentage of Otgiva 'of Luxemburg' an Unsolved Tenth- and Eleventh-Century Problem" which discusses both brothers as possible fathers of Otgiva. The "orthodox view" is that Otigva was a daughter of Frederick (died 6 October 1019), count in Moselgau, son of Siegfried. He points to numerous sources: ES VI:128, Hirsch (1862-75), 1:538, n. 8; Vanderkindere (1902), 1:296; Renn (1941), 115-16, 125, 136; Vannerus (1947), 824, 833-34; Parisse (1981), 33. His conclusion "While there seems to be a good case for making Otgive a daughter of Giselbert rather than of Fr?d?ric, the case does not seem strong enough to set aside the "standard scenario" definitively".

Ogive Of Luxembourg d/o Frederick I Count Of Luxemburg & Ermentrude Of Gleiberg [ES:VI-128] b. Abt 995 d. 21 Feb 1030 m. Abt 1005 Baldwin IV The Bearded Count Of Flanders
Sources with Inaccurate Information
father: Giselbert [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v5p496]

Giselbert Count Of Vaudorivang & (unk-wife) m.
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: Otgive (or Ogive) [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v5p496]

RoyalAnc v5p504 Line E 8 Giselbert, Count of Vaudrevange/Wallerfangen (in Moselgau). … Child of Count Giselbert, by ____: i. Otgive (or Ogive), married Baudouin IV, Count-Marquis of Flanders [see Line B, Gen 9].

On the parentage of Otgva, RoyalAnc differs from every other source I've used: Moriarty PlantagenetAncestry, Brandenburg, Paget HRHCharles, Weis AR7, etc. Since she is not in CP, this would not be announced as a "CP Correction", but she has been discussed at great length on GEN-MEDIEVAL: see Hans Vogel, 3 Aug 2015, and Stewart Baldwin on 5 Aug 2015. The discussion pointed to Stewart Baldwin's Henry page otgiv000, and Stewart Baldwin's article in TAG vol 83 pp116-121 "The Parentage of Otgiva 'of Luxemburg' an Unsolved Tenth- and Eleventh-Century Problem" which discusses both brothers as possible fathers of Otgiva. The "orthodox view" is that Otigva was a daughter of Frederick (died 6 October 1019), count in Moselgau, son of Siegfried. He points to numerous sources: ES VI:128, Hirsch (1862-75), 1:538, n. 8; Vanderkindere (1902), 1:296; Renn (1941), 115-16, 125, 136; Vannerus (1947), 824, 833-34; Parisse (1981), 33. His conclusion "While there seems to be a good case for making Otgive a daughter of Giselbert rather than of Fr?d?ric, the case does not seem strong enough to set aside the "standard scenario" definitively".

Ogive Of Luxembourg d/o Frederick I Count Of Luxemburg & Ermentrude Of Gleiberg [ES:VI-128] b. Abt 995 d. 21 Feb 1030 m. Abt 1005 Baldwin IV The Bearded Count Of Flanders
Sources with Inaccurate Information
father: Giselbert [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v5p504]

Giselbert Count Of Vaudorivang & (unk-wife) m.
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: Otgive (or Ogive) [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v5p504]

Gisele Of Luxembourg d/o Frederick I Count Of Luxemburg & Ermentrude Of Gleiberg [ES:VI-128, AR:143-21] d. 21 May After 1058 u. Chapel Of St Lawrence, Ghent m. Abt 1042 Ralph De GANT, Lord Of Aalst
Sources with Inaccurate Information
father: Giselbert [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v5p504]

Giselbert Count Of Vaudorivang & (unk-wife) m.
Sources with Inaccurate Information
child: Gisele [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v5p504]